Has Anyone Done Accompaniment Work?

[jtucker]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has had any gigs accompanying singers or dancers. I know in Spain that's kind of the next step after you've learned your palos and some falsetas, to help in a dance or singing studio.

Has anyone done this in the USA? Or is it pretty much a solo-based road?

Jason

[Tony Hyman]

Hi Tucker I have done dance and backing vocalists in my country but unfortunately I dont know much about the Flamenco Circut.I am sure someone like Nfalla would be able to answer your question from as USA
perspective .

[jtucker]

That sounds good Tony. Was it more or less demanding than playing a solo flamenco gig? Was there anything that made it better or worse than being a soloist? I'd love to hear your experiences.

[Kainarezo]

Hey Jason,

That's pretty much what I do for a living, and I'd say there's a lot more work accompanying dance in the US than anything else. There seems to be a greater audience for dance than solo guitar, and more for guitar than for Cante. As far as which is easier, I wouldn't want to say. You can learn a solo piece without necessarily knowing much about Flamenco, but to accompany you have to know a lot about the structures of the various palos when danced (knowing how to play Alegria in compás, for example, doesn't prepare you for all of the different sections of the dance), and you need to be familiar with the letras that might be sung.

Cheers,
Kai

[NGiorgio]

Kai,

Nice to see you on this forum. I am a fan of your work.

I hope that you might become an active contributor here, as I am sure that many of us could benefit from your experience. :)

[Tony Hyman]

I think being a Soloist Guitarist is more challenging mayby from a phycological
point .You are on your own and there is nothing or no-one else to blame for for fluffs ,which is typical from my experience in the group experience.My experience in the Military Band as a kid taught me how to compliment other players while doing accompaniment in sections on the tuba as well as following a Conductor .Accompaniment on the guitar was doing mainly Country
and of our own cultural music called Boere Musiek where you would instinctivley would develop the ears by following the melody line and the band would be expected to accompany on the trot with no music .You were very fortunate if someone took the trouble to write the chord charts out even.But the mind adapts very quickly I found ,when put under pressure and your calling as a musician is put to the test.Sometimes before the days of kareokie and backtracks you were even expected to identify the key quikly because some vocalists didnt have a clue about keys and things .But like most things ,the more you are afforded exposure to somthing the luckier one becomes.But what I found if one listened to a recording of a track and following the solist on the CD helps the ears and feel as well if there is a recording available. Write the chords out if you have to.The little I have seen
about Flamenco on this site leads me to believe that one would have to develop a good set of ears and feel to follow a dancer or vocalist who also do their own thing I would imagine.I hope this helps.

[NFalla]

"Accompaniment".............that's what WE ALL did..............there was no such thing as learning how to play "Solo" right from the get go!!
Of course that has all changed now-a-days.

Easier or Harder???..............i guess that depends on what you mean???.........but i will say "It's all relative."

Is "Accompaniment" common in the USA ............???
i will say "YES" it is............there are quite a few dance companies out there.

[Tony Hyman]

I think where the misconception or confusion around the term "solo guitar"
comes in Nfalla is the difference between a Classical Solo Guitarist as Noads calles it in his eg Books I and 2 where he calles them solo "guitar playing"
with no accompaniment as in Bream,Williams,Segovia ect.The other "solo guitar" would be the lead guitarist as opposed to the rythme guitarist in a band set-up even Solo Bass guitarisrs ie Stanley Clark.I find this distinction unique to the guitar environment because one seldom hears of a Solo Pianist ,or Sax or Clarinet player .They might have
a position on a solo stand but the still remain pianists or sax or clarinet players from a musician perspective.So a guitarist from the Classical Guitar point of view dose become a soloist from the beginning it would seem but he would do well as John Williams has stated to also do as much accompaniment as possible in the group environment as well.

[NFalla]

There's no confusion for me......??

when i say "Solo" i'm referring to "Alone" or "Solo as in a classical player may be".

Again...........We All learned how to play with the dancers and singers.............there was no such thing as playing "Solo" right from the get go...........you had to get down "Accompaniment"............it was the way......

Not so anymore................now-a-days people are learning how to play "Solo" Vicente Amigo stuff right from the get go.......i personally feel this is not a good way to learn the inner workings of flamenco.............in my opinion it leads to people clinging to something without a deep sense of what is.

On the other-hand...................i find music that sounds like flamenco but isn't very refreshing..............simply because i've been hearing "Tradition" my whole friggin' life and it's getting a little redundant!!................just like me!!..........LOLLOL!!

As to "Solo" as in a single note phrase..........i call that a "Lead".;)...................not "Solo" guitar.

[Tony Hyman]

For sure ! what better examples of solo guitar in the wide sense than say
Joe Pass and Barney Kessel who would play those lovely full chord harmony solos unaccompanied .They would also be called Solo Guitarists I would think
Jazz or no Jazz.But I think we are on the same page now as far as Soloists
and Accompanists are concerned in the ensemble environment as far as their status is concerned.

[NFalla]

Indeed Sir....!!!;)

[jtucker]

Wow thanks for all the input! In the USA have you all found that it's a competitive gig market for the dance troupes? Or are they just happy to have someone that knows anything about flamenco that's interested in being something other than a world famous soloist?
I'm nowhere near where I need to be in my familiarity with palos and structure, but I can get there. I don't have blazing speed in my picado, but I have the skills needed to play most things except for the crazy runs. Truly, I would love to just be an accompanist fulfilling the traditional role. Is that weird? Haha

[Tony Hyman]

The sad part from my experience is that some "Soloists"are so hungup soloing
that they cant or wont even be able to lay down a decenent accompaniment when required to do so from what Ive seen ,sense of timming literally zero .It all boils down to the old attitude paying your dues thing and I think you are on the right train.

[NFalla]

The sad part from my experience is that some "Soloists"are so hungup soloing
that they cant or wont even be able to lay down a decenent accompaniment when required to do so from what Ive seen ,sense of timming literally zero .It all boils down to the old attitude paying your dues thing and I think you are on the right train.

True sometimes.;)

[Dave Tate]

Hey Jason,

That's pretty much what I do for a living, and I'd say there's a lot more work accompanying dance in the US than anything else. There seems to be a greater audience for dance than solo guitar, and more for guitar than for Cante. As far as which is easier, I wouldn't want to say. You can learn a solo piece without necessarily knowing much about Flamenco, but to accompany you have to know a lot about the structures of the various palos when danced (knowing how to play Alegria in compás, for example, doesn't prepare you for all of the different sections of the dance), and you need to be familiar with the letras that might be sung.

Cheers,
Kai

Kai! Welcome to the forum!!! ;)

[Kainarezo]

Thanks - I finally got it to let me log in!

[Tony Hyman]

Well I think a Soloist who has no hang-ups with what music his playing or who
is doing it with and even got the T-Shirts to prove it ,needs no introduction .If you dont mind the 6 min Vid.I think the co-ordination between the players speaks volumes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXfHhLebVE

[jtucker]

Kai, what part of the country are you in? It's kind of hard to say, but are there dance troupes that you can kind of cut your teeth on and it's not a problem to have a somewhat inexperienced tocaor, or do you have to be absolutely fantastic and world class to get any accompaniment gig whatsoever?

[Kainarezo]

Hey Jason,

I have no idea how well you play or how long you've been at it, so forgive me if this is all too basic, but the time honored way of learning to play for dance is to accompany dance classes. I started playing for class in NY (for Jose Molina's class) way before I was really qualified to even do that, but getting yelled at for not knowing this or that was a real incentive to go home and learn whatever it was I didn't know that day, and to pepper my teacher (Dennis Koster back then) with questions. So if there are any dance classes in your area, get to know the teacher, and ask if you can sit in and play for class. It's a bit trickier if the class already has an accompanist, but a little humility usually goes a long way towards getting you in with whoever's already there. As for playing for cante, just start playing along with every record of cante that you own (don't start with anything too modern) and you'll start to see the patterns pretty quick. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Kai

p.s. I'm in L.A.