Conde / Sobrinos Headstock and bridge designs - Mariano, Faustino & Juliano

[Jorge]

I can't seem to get the headstock design, bridge design chronology together.
Did the three nephews use the same headstock at the same time and who started the Media Luna style? I have several Sobrinos and Condes going back to 1960 and it seems that the Esteso style head was in use in 1960 and the media luna was in use in 1961. Was this a cutover or were the nephews using different head styles in the same time period. There were also 2 different media luna styles, a more refined style was used by Faustino and a cruder style was used by Mariano? I have some of each. The bridges were also mixed up: double bar only, full frame inset at top and bottom then the filled white bridges.
The double bar was the original Domingo Esteso style. Who made that original Esteso style guitar? all three?
The Gravina, Felipe V addresses we pretty much have cleared up I think

Comments and history please?

[tanolonco]

Jorge, try posting this inquiry at acguitar dot com in the classical/flamenco/nylon string section. There is guy there, Charlie Vega, who is pretty knowledgeable about the guitar industry in Spain and may be able to shed some light on the matter. Here is what I can add: Domingo Esteso was the original builder of the Esteso guitar which became, down the road, Conde which then became.....Conde vs. Conde vs. who knows....that is part of the Conde mystery/story. To add to this mix, there is a 3rd Conde address. The original Esteso headstock is used on the intermediate level (A28 and A27) which may not be built by any Conde rather someone who does builds outsourced guitars which adds another twist to this tale.

[Pepe Vergara]

kaski1
Member
Member # 7392 - posted 03-16-2008 06:26 AM: There's a guy over on the GSI forum who's having a major hissy-fit because somebody with the screen name "iberianwolf" (who he seems to think is CV in disguise) implied that his Conde guitars, for which he apparently laid out some big money, were perhaps made in a factory in Valencia and not by the two Conde bros in Madrid.
I guess if I had shelled out the kind of money this guy apparently did I'd probably have a hissy-fit too.
--------------------------
NGiorgio
Member
Member # 15206 - posted 03-16-2008 06:51 AM: So it is possible that the brothers Sanchis Lopez make a few guitars for the Conde brothers. Are they all related in some way?

Now I am even more confused .....................

And I thought that those two nice guys in the white coats made each and every one of those A 25 and A 26 guitars. Yeah, right ...

----------------------------------
Posted by C.F. Vega (Member # 5864) on 03-14-2008 01:19 PM:

Hmmm, let's see now.....smoke, mirrors, orange paint.
Yup, I think that about covers it.
--------------------------------
J Hildreth
Member
Member # 103- posted 09-11-2008 12:47 PM : If a Sanchiz Carpio flamenco is nearly identical to some of the Conde models, who is the copiest

Odd that Carpios used to be cheap until the street buzz was that Sanchiz built some of the Condes , then Carpios nearly tripled in price..

Orange belongs on a Gretsch
--------------------------
C.F. Vega
Member # 5864 - posted 09-11-2008 02:17 PM : Not so fast, Jeff!!!
One of our more illustrious forum members (whose name won't mention but I'm sure you can figure out who it is) stated on another forum that Conde finishes their guitars in that hideous orange color because orange is the Spanish royal color. Really, that's what he said.
I guess it goes with that "Spanish Royal Cypress" they use. [Roll Eyes]

[Great Googly Moogly]

kaski1
Member
Member # 7392 - posted 03-16-2008 06:26 AM: There's a guy over on the GSI forum who's having a major hissy-fit because somebody with the screen name "iberianwolf" (who he seems to think is CV in disguise) implied that his Conde guitars, for which he apparently laid out some big money, were perhaps made in a factory in Valencia and not by the two Conde bros in Madrid.LOL Oh God, that is painful.

[Jubilee Valence]

Posted by C.F. Vega (Member # 5864) on 03-14-2008 01:19 PM:

Hmmm, let's see now.....smoke, mirrors, orange paint.
Yup, I think that about covers it.
--------------------------------


"smoke" (http://www.andalusiang.com/decipresfoto4.html) (...Esteso '27?)

"mirrors" (http://www.andalusiang.com/shcipresfoto2.html) (...Santos '27?!)

"...real thing...." (http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1927-lasalle-1.jpg) ('27 bells & whistles)

Jorge, I apologize regarding this seemingly "cryptic" little double entendre which pokes a little humor towards some *strange goings on here lately!
(*-"media lunatic")

In any event enjoy the rather curious photos submitted here and do enjoy your magnificent intruments!
JV
:mrgreen:

[ssante]

This is all very interesting .. Smoke and Mirrors and Orange Paint. Its been quite a learning experience and it certainly showcases the old adage:
Business is Business!

BTW: I think Gretsch guitars look cool in Orange and Green.

[ssante]

"smoke" (http://www.andalusiang.com/decipresfoto4.html) (...Esteso '27?)

"mirrors" (http://www.andalusiang.com/shcipresfoto2.html) (...Santos '27?!)


Totally CLASSIC... ;-)

[johnbguitar]

Okay -- I may (I emphasize --"may" come into some money and I am thinking based upon sound alone either a "Conde" or (if I can find a steal) a "Reyes". I gravitate to a blanca either way as I feel I have a good guitar (negra although classical) in a GVR and what I gather is that the current ways of making negras is that they are becoming classicals. I want a flamenco guitar (what should the specs be for it in MM?) What are the potential scams, pitfalls, etc.. on these Condes or Reyes? I think I may be able to buy one but not two if I screw up the first time. Any and all comments would be helpful. I would suppose there are a ton of a_____s that make copies (like "copy of Stradivarious--- hehehehe). I would like to know the pitfalls of going to Spain for one vs buying in the US.? I have not ruled out "Ramirez" but am close to, as they are more of a classical which I already have. I have reservations about their ability to build Flamencos. Please educate me? (No -- I am not counting on winning the lotto!!). :D

[NGiorgio]

Okay -- I may (I emphasize --"may" come into some money and I am thinking based upon sound alone either a "Conde" or (if I can find a steal) a "Reyes". I gravitate to a blanca either way as I feel I have a good guitar (negra although classical) in a GVR and what I gather is that the current ways of making negras is that they are becoming classicals. I want a flamenco guitar (what should the specs be for it in MM?) What are the potential scams, pitfalls, etc.. on these Condes or Reyes? I think I may be able to buy one but not two if I screw up the first time. Any and all comments would be helpful. I would suppose there are a ton of a_____s that make copies (like "copy of Stradivarious--- hehehehe). I would like to know the pitfalls of going to Spain for one vs buying in the US.? I have not ruled out "Ramirez" but am close to, as they are more of a classical which I already have. I have reservations about their ability to build Flamencos. Please educate me? (No -- I am not counting on winning the lotto!!). :D

If you are seriously thinking about a guitar in the price range of Conde, Ramirez and Reyes, you should get in touch with resident flamenco expert Dave Tate, right here at G.S.I. BTW, GVR makes very nice blancas.

[ssante]

If you are seriously thinking about a guitar in the price range of Conde, Ramirez and Reyes, you should get in touch with resident flamenco expert Dave Tate, right here at G.S.I. BTW, GVR makes very nice blancas.

Absolutely! If your looking to drop that kind of money a one ultra fine Blanca consider your options with Dave Tate and call one of the Fine Luthiers who are part of this MB. That should help you narrow your focus.

[tanolonco]

johnbguitar: Back in the day Ramirez flamencos were very highly regarded--hey Sabicas played one for a long time and, as I recall from George's book on the flamenco guitar, Diego del Castor preferred them if he could not find a Santos. That said, if you go to Spain thinking you will get a great deal you need to realize that the guitars sold in the shops there are often times not the primo guitars--those are being made for customers who ordered them. Additionally, there is the issue of taxes, customs, etc. It is likely you will save all that much but you will have a trip to Spain under your belt.

Right now the best luthier producing blancas is Aaron Green. Check out what GSI has to say about the guitar they had. Aaron has a customer base that is world wide and each year his reputation is growing even more. I think his base price is $5500 or thereabouts. Here is the link

http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=3193

As to Condes--in my opinion they tend to be overpriced both in terms of the base price and the euro to dollar exchange--the latter can be said for all Spanish guitars. The tone and color are personal choices so I will not go down that road. I once owned one and it was OK. As to Reyes, if it is the real deal you will pay dearly. If it is someone's interpretation of a Reyes then you have decide between the luthiers making said interpretation. That said, most guitars out there right now are really the luthier's interpretation of someone's guitar of the past--be in Santos, Barbero, Ramirez, etc.