Learning Rasquedos

[ssante]

I am in the process of re-learning the correct method for playing Flamenco Rasquedos. Imagine how frustrating it is to try and unlearn a technique you have been using off and on for 20 years. To my ears it always sounding pretty good but unlike true Flamencos I could never quite understand why it did not sound exactly like their style. I always fiqured I had to dig in more to get the clarity between strokes. So after all this time I find out my fingers are doing more of a roll without enough flick and wait time between each. Not a strum but not exactly a true Flamencos Rasquedo.

So when I began studying the Graf/Martinez books and viewing the videos I had the AHHHAAA moment followed by the OMG moment after doing something incorrectly for 20 years (off and on). Problem is, while the technique is explained (like flicking spit wads of paper) it did nothing to explain how the bodies mechanics have to adapt and how to really undo and gradually approach Rasquedo correctly.

Thankfully my teacher has enlightened me and placed me on the correct path and I am slowly making progress. I admit my patience is being tested in a way I could not have imagined; meaning I am used to progressing very fast when I study something vigorously. I am learning that you cannot rush Rasquedos. So I began searching the internet to find out more about learning and instilling correct Rasquedos technique. So I came across these tips at the NylonGuitarist.com:

http://www.nylonguitarist.com/rasgueado_mastery_part_2.html

After experiencing what I am currently going through I have to say I feel that this section that Sal has created for mastering Rasquedos is a great explaination and I am finding that he is spot on in regards to the conscious and unconscious mechanisms at work.

Learning (relearning) Flamenco is the most challenging musical pursuit I have ever attempted. Everyday it tests my patience and humbles me in ways I would have never thought possible after all these years of playing in other styles and genres. This is truly a "labor of love".

[NGiorgio]

Stephanie,

I can relate to your situation. Had a similar problem quite a few years ago.

Altough the suggestions at Sal's site are quite good, allow me to recommend a book that can give you further assistance. It is "The Art of Rasgueado" by Ioannis Anastassakis. An in depth study of the different types of Rasgueos used by some of the well known flamenco artists and how to execute them properly. Extremely helpful. Check it out.;-)

[Pepe Vergara]

You are in good hands with Sal. Did you notice his guitar?

[ssante]

Stephanie,

I can relate to your situation. Had a similar problem quite a few years ago.

Altough the suggestions at Sal's site are quite good, allow me to recommend a book that can give you further assistance. It is "The Art of Rasgueado" by Ioannis Anastassakis. An in depth study of the different types of Rasgueos used by some of the well known flamenco artists and how to execute them properly. Extremely helpful. Check it out.;-)

Yes I do have this book. What a huge library of Rasqueado.

[ssante]

You are in good hands with Sal. Did you notice his guitar?

Sure Did! ;)

[Jubilee Valence]

You are in good hands with Sal. Did you notice his guitar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43WrKA6ppI
(note: "not" the Pepe...)

Here's Sal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqLAmAsuPLM&feature=channel

Here's duende...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbxbjzN9xY

[at_leo_87]

hey steph,
i know how frustrating that can be! it takes time, but once you get it, it feels sooo good. and it'll probably come faster than you expect. just work slow with a metronome and trust that'll come.

and i dont know if sal mentions this but remember, for three finger rasgueados, flick from the thumb.

[ssante]

hey steph,
i know how frustrating that can be! it takes time, but once you get it, it feels sooo good. and it'll probably come faster than you expect. just work slow with a metronome and trust that'll come.

and i dont know if sal mentions this but remember, for three finger rasgueados, flick from the thumb.

My teacher has me learning the 4 finger rasgueados first. I have to say that its coming along nicely. This is definitely something you cannot rush.

[ssante]

Rasgueados are so much fun and diverse. I am greatly enjoying Rasgueados now that my hand is getting stronger. I have found I can vary the Punteado by using i or m or a or q and still followup with Rasgueado as 2 finger, 3 finger or 4 finger. I still find that I fatique after a minute or so and have to mix it up with other techniques like tremelo, arpeggio, etc. in order to give my hand a rest. I also find it takes time to achieve consistent clarity and not missing a finger or two when doing "continuous rasgueados". Its amazing how much tonal variety you can get out of the Rasgueado techniques. It adds a level of tonal complexity that is very rich in scope. I realize alot of Flamencos here already know this but as the saying goes:

"If you haven't done it before its new to you" :p

[Sandra]

I am in the process of re-learning the correct method for playing Flamenco Rasquedos.
I'm going to go out on a limb here (not being a flamenco player myself) and say that perhaps there is no one "correct" method for playing rasqueados.

Nice that you have a teacher you feel you are comfortable with, but who says their method is the only "correct" one?

Somehow, I think the true spirit of flamenco is not formal instruction, but learning and imitating and discovering your own style.

Take a true flamenco player from the streets of Spain, and I doubt they spent years of $50+/hour lessons learning how to play a rasqueado correctly.

[ssante]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (not being a flamenco player myself) and say that perhaps there is no one "correct" method for playing rasqueados.

Nice that you have a teacher you feel you are comfortable with, but who says their method is the only "correct" one?

Somehow, I think the true spirit of flamenco is not formal instruction, but learning and imitating and discovering your own style.

Take a true flamenco player from the streets of Spain, and I doubt they spent years of $50+/hour lessons learning how to play a rasqueado correctly.

Sandra,

I agree. I do know that this is just one method and there are many ways to play. That being said I have always envied those who build a strong foundation first. To me that means learning a traditional method first be it an instructor or a video. I would imagine most beginners and intermediates try very hard to play it like their instructor wants and it does not matter if you have a physical teacher or your learning with a Book/Video package. I am sure alot of folks on this MB took Classical Music in College. I can only imagine the disgraceful look they would have received had they been doing their own thing and not stayed within the framework of what the curriculums scope was. Once the foundation is laid then one can always fly as far as they want. That to me is exactly what PDL did.

By nature I tend to always do my own thing right out of the gate. In some ways that has backfired at times. Especially when trying to accompany folks well grounded in tradition.

I can't speak for Spanish culture around learning Flamenco (then or now) as I have never lived in Spain, however I do feel very fortunate to live in an area with a teacher available. I would definitely not want to attempt to learn Flamenco in a void at this point. Even as great as books/media/recording are these days its very easy to miss many little things that end up being big issues later on. For many of us we would have no exposure to other Flamencos except through Utube and such. However for many of us that is a godsent and I am enjoying Graf-Martinez and others. While that helps I do not think it takes the place of personal contact and eye to eye teaching.

Regarding the last statement of $$ for Rasqueados. I really don't know how to respond to that! I thought folks might find it interesting for me to post some of my experience and thoughts as I travel this road since its all so new to me. I have been doing my own thing for 20+ years and much of it in a vacumn. My postings have actually little to do with lessons and alot more about Flamenco and its challenging nature in general. I have received many wonderful tips and guidance from many members of this MB which I am most thankful for. I tend to be very personable and open about my experiences and feelings.

I apologize if my posting comes off as boasting in anyway as thats certainly not my intent at all.

Respectfully

[ssante]

Here is a partial quote from Frontera (another MB) who is giving advice to a beginning Flamencos regarding learning:

"...The best way to learn flamenco guitar is in person from a teacher that is rooted in traditional flamenco and doesn't try to teach music theory, but demonstrates, then has you play what they did until you get the compas in your head. A student needs to do lots of listening especially to traditional flamenco. If you haven't grown up with flamenco, the compas can only be learned by listening a lot and playing a little and a live teacher helps speed up the process. Good flamenco teachers, especially those from gypsy flamenco families are hard to find and usually expensive but certainly the best way to go..."

This seems very logical. Perhaps some of the Gypsy Flamencos on this MB can chime in with there perspectives as they have the 1st hand experience?

[Joguitar]

.....
Once the foundation is laid then one can always fly as far as they want.
.....
By nature I tend to always do my own thing right out of the gate.
.....

I travel this road since its all so new to me.
........
My postings have actually little to do with lessons and alot more about Flamenco and its challenging nature in general.
........
I tend to be very personable and open about my experiences and feelings.
.......


Ssante!

I realy want to thank you for this wonderful thread!

You are great!

I´m shure the way you travel will lead you to a very spezial technique and feeling for your own rhythm and interpretation of flamenco....

I followed your threads about "learning" flamenco...and realy was inspired by the way you reflekt it ....

All the best.....and I want to read more.....

Joguitar;)

[ssante]

Ssante!

I realy want to thank you for this wonderful thread!

You are great!

I´m shure the way you travel will lead you to a very spezial technique and feeling for your own rhythm and interpretation of flamenco....

I followed your threads about "learning" flamenco...and realy was inspired by the way you reflekt it ....

All the best.....and I want to read more.....

Joguitar;)

Thank you so much for such kindness. :D

[at_leo_87]

there may be no "correct" way but there sure are "better" ways. it's best to experiment with everything and learn it all.

i just learned the hooked thumb rasgueado and i really like it. took awhile to get used to it, bugged the heck out of me, but im glad i learned it.

[ssante]

there may be no "correct" way but there sure are "better" ways. it's best to experiment with everything and learn it all.

i just learned the hooked thumb rasgueado and i really like it. took awhile to get used to it, bugged the heck out of me, but im glad i learned it.

"hooked thumb"? I can find nothing on this style.

[at_leo_87]

it's an ami rasgueado but instead of flicking from the palm, you hook your thumb nail around the 6th string and flick off of the thumb.

i've seen basically every modern guitarist do it. i was getting confused and was wondering why in the world they would do that because it felt really unnatural.

you can see it here at 40 seconds and throughout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BCoZiSbGtY

here's jose tanaka demonstrating it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFOo7NUd64w

graf martinez, man it's annoying how he talks. :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSvIl4gFEY

here's an awesome explanation by adam del monte, i wish i found this video earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkgTxtvpJ28

[NGiorgio]

there may be no "correct" way but there sure are "better" ways. it's best to experiment with everything and learn it all.

i just learned the hooked thumb rasgueado and i really like it. took awhile to get used to it, bugged the heck out of me, but im glad i learned it.

It seems that just about every performer today is using it. Took me a while to get used to it but it certainly works.

BTW, Adam delMonte has on line lessons which are really good.

[at_leo_87]

i'm still trying to figure out the differences between hooked and not hooked. i think there's slightly less tension in the hand with hooked. sound wise, they sound similar.

[NGiorgio]

i'm still trying to figure out the differences between hooked and not hooked. i think there's slightly less tension in the hand with hooked. sound wise, they sound similar.

That may vary from player to player.;-) I find that there is slightly more tension with the thumb hooked around a bass string and that the rasgueo is stronger. It definitely seems to improve the attack and gets more of the bass strings into it.

I also find that "hooking" allows for more dynamic control with the rasgueos.

Like so many things in flamenco, you have to find what works best for you.

[ssante]

That may vary from player to player.;-) I find that there is slightly more tension with the thumb hooked around a bass string and that the rasgueo is stronger. It definitely seems to improve the attack and gets more of the bass strings into it.

I also find that "hooking" allows for more dynamic control with the rasgueos.

Like so many things in flamenco, you have to find what works best for you.

After trying this out I can see where the rasgueo is stronger since theres more tension against the thumb and the anchor is more solid. I do agree there is more tension. Its an interesting subtle change.

[NFalla]

Nick's got that down, to me at least.

Many different ways of doing this.

Experiment is the key.

Find what works best and utilize it.:)

[ssante]

Nick's got that down, to me at least.

Many different ways of doing this.

Experiment is the key.

Find what works best and utilize it.:)

Darn good advice NF. Thanks so much. I know that certain positions just feel more natural to me. When it feels more natural my playing flows much better.