Vincente Carillo Guitars [Archive] - Guitar Salon International Forums

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John

06-26-2003, 01:50 PM

:?: To Guitar Salon International, what do you know about Vincente Carrillo Flamenco Guitars? :D

John

06-26-2003, 06:01 PM

1994 Conde Hermanos (Gravina) Negra or the Ricardo Sanchis Carpio 1Af-Extra. anyone have opinions on any of these Flamencan guitars?

06-27-2003, 11:37 AM

Hi John,

My experience with Vicente Carrillo guitars is limited, but my understanding is they are basically factory made instruments, of okay quality, but nothing out of the ordinary. Are you looking for a concert guitar or a student guitar?

thanks,
Miguel, GSI

John

06-27-2003, 02:49 PM

Miguel, I have been talking with David at GSI and he recommended the Hermanos negra (Gravine) at $3300.00. I am fairly sure that this is the guitar that I'm going to get from you all. but I just wanted to compare other guitars to make sure that I get the right one. I am also wanting to know about the price on your Conde Hermanos "Felipe V negra flamenco. Last question, do you know anything about the Ricardo Sanchis Carpio Model 1a_F extra professional flamenco Guitar? As I told Daved, I'm looking for a medium priced Flamenco guitar. I'm a beginning student but I don't want to have to "upgrade" in a few years so I want a better guitar. Thanks. :lol:

Miguel

06-27-2003, 05:03 PM

Hi John

I am not familiar with Ricardo Sanchis Carpio's guitars myself, but I checked with some of the guys around here and they tell me they are also okay guitars, but nothing extraordinary.
There is a tremendous amount of workshops all over the world that make guitars of all quality levels. You obviously want to do some research before investing this kind of money, but at the same time if I were you I wouldn't drive myself nuts researching every single workshop that comes to mind. You will only end up confusing yourself. No matter what the reputation of a workshop is, the ultimate test will be putting the guitar in your hands and playing it. Also, remember that an instrument that responds great to one person's hands may not respond as well to someone else's (and viceversa). It always comes down to personal taste, and again, the only way to find out if a guitar works for you will be to play it yourself.
Regarding the "Felipe V Negra", the price is considerably higher than the Gravina guitar you are already interested in. Give us a call on Monday and we'll talk some more.

Hope this helps,

Miguel.

Taral

06-27-2003, 11:30 PM

Hi John,

I have been playing the classical guitar for 10 years and 2 years ago,I have bought Vicente Carrillo (ındian rosewood back and sides-spruce top).It is superb.Carrillo guitars are %100 hand made and the price are quiet affordable according to their quality.I also tried wellknown Bernabe,Manzenero guitars and I can say that no difference between.

Regarding to the flamenco guitars.Paco de Lucia was playing Hermanos Conde guitars and tried Vicente Carrillo's flamenco Negra and fell in love.He made a agreement with Carrillo to make a guitars for Paco De Lucia and sold out in the market with label PDL which are Vicente Carrilo made.

If you try to buy PDL guitars ,the price is 4000-5000 $,ıf you buy vicente carrilo you should pay only 2400$ in spite of being made by the same luthier.

My recommendation is to choose Carrillo guiatrs.Go ahead.....

Taral

raimundo

07-03-2003, 09:07 PM

Dimitri

07-30-2003, 02:40 PM

Carrillo guitars are %100 hand made...

...Paco de Lucia was playing Hermanos Conde guitars and tried Vicente Carrillo's flamenco Negra and fell in love. He made a agreement with Carrillo to make a guitars for Paco De Lucia and sold out in the market with label PDL which are Vicente Carrilo made.

Taral,
Carrillo's guitars are built by a variety of different people, in a factory-style shop. Carrillo's factory shop currently builds guitars for other shops and luthiers. These other shops or luthiers then put their own labels on them and sell them as their own guitars (or Carrillo's shop put these label in for an extra fee.)

My point is that, yes, Carrillo's guitars are very good guitars for their price range, but they are not "hand built" in the traditional sense. There is really no way that one (or two) people can possibly build all these guitars by themselves. A good luthier, who devotes all of his time to building, can probably only build 15 guitars a year... at most. Manzanero, for example, only builds about 10 guitars a year.

Carrillo's shops probably puts out hundreds of guitars per year. It is impossible for one person (or even two or three) to hand-build all these guitars. It's not possible.

Paco de Lucia is marketing a PdL signature model from Carrillo's shop, but I really don't think that he has fallen in "love" with these guitars. I think it had to do with the fact that the Gravina 7 Conde shop was still marketing a PdL signature model, without his permission. So, he probably decided to market his own signature model as a result of this.

Paco actually prefers guitars built by Lester DeVoe.

But, I do agree with you about this: you are better off spending $2,000 less and buy a standard Carrillo negra, instead of a PdL model. Their differences are only superficial (headstock, etc). Essentially, you are paying $2,000+ because the label carries Paco's name.

keith

07-31-2003, 06:33 AM

john--read the discussion about the ramirez sound and read the other discussions about which guitar is better, etc. etc. guess what, it boils down to two things: one pair of ears and one pair of hands; i.e., which feels best in your hands and what sounds best to your ears. of course, money does play a role, but all things considered equal......go with the ears and hands.

if you intend on spending serious bucks, i would recommend flying out to santa monica for a day and trying them out. hey for the money you save on shipping you could buy part of your airline ticket, buy the thing, and fly home with it.

think about this: if you are interested in a woman and wanted to see if there was a possiblity of a relationship with this woman, would you call me and ask about her? or would you take her out and find out for yourself?

Cliff

08-01-2003, 01:40 PM

John asked if anyone was familiar with Ricardo Sanchis flamenco guitars. I have a Ricardo Sanchis "Solista" Indian/ Spruce classical which is the best sounding spruce top classical I've ever owned. This is saying something because I've owned literally dozens of concert guitars over the years including two Contreras I Double Tops with spruce tops- one of them obtained from a well known concert artist. I've only played this single Sanchis so perhaps it's a really exceptional example.

Dimitri

08-01-2003, 02:06 PM

Cliff,
I've played five different Carpios (all flamencos). What I've realized is that Carpio's quality is very inconsistent. One of the Carpios sounded like an absolute DREAM. One sound like complete garbage. And the rest were somewhere in the middle: not great, but still excellent for the $2,500-$3,000 price range.

TheEvan

10-05-2003, 11:28 AM

Taral,
Carrillo's guitars are built by a variety of different people, in a factory-style shop. Carrillo's factory shop currently builds guitars for other shops and luthiers. These other shops or luthiers then put their own labels on them and sell them as their own guitars (or Carrillo's shop put these label in for an extra fee.)

I don't think this is correct, though I may be wrong. I found this:

"Vícente Carrillo Casas was born in Casasimarro in the province of Cuenca in 1963 into a family of luthiers that included: his great grandfather, D. Blas Carrillo Alarcón (1836-1919); his grandfather D. Vícente Carrillo López (1881-1962); and his father, D. Vícente Carrillo Cantos (1926-1971). Following the death of his father, when he was only 8 years old, his mother, Gabriela Casas Fornier took over the Carrillo shop which at the time employed a number of master craftsmen. In 1984, after military service, Vícente decided to learn the family business, studying not only with the various luthiers in their shop-- but also with a number of guitar makers of the Madrid school, among them Angel Benito Aguado and José Romero, whose friendship and professional advice he continues to value. Since his mother retired, the shop no longer employs a large number craftsmen. Currently, Vícente builds guitars with one assistant. The quality of their guitars, however, has increased. Each instrument is now entirely built by hand using traditional techniques. The design of Vícente's guitars are based on those of Santos Hernández (1873-1942) with some slight modifications of his own. His guitars have that old Madrid tone that is characterized by a certain warmth, deep basses, and sweet trebles."

Now that explains that, doesn't it? Actually you were both right and wrong :wink:

Dimitri

10-05-2003, 01:56 PM

I don't think this is correct, though I may be wrong. I found this:

...the shop no longer employs a large number craftsmen. Currently, Vícente builds guitars with one assistant. The quality of their guitars, however, has increased. Each instrument is now entirely built by hand using traditional techniques...

Now that explains that, doesn't it? Actually you were both right and wrong :wink:

Hi Evan,
Carillo's shop puts out probably 150 guitars a year (at least). One person (with one assistant) can't produce that many guitars. Ask any luthier... they'll tell you that the *most* one person can build is 20 guitars (and that's a liberal estimate; it's probably closer to 15.)

And at best, the *most* that TWO people can produce is 40 guitars per year, even if they build them in batches (i.e. several at one time). Again, that's an extremely liberal estimate; it's probably closer to 30.

So, let's think about this....

In addition to his own guitars (under his own label), he *also* builds the two Paco de Lucial model flamenco guitars.

In addition to those, he *also* builds the Model 40 flamenco line (which he markets to other luthiers for them to place their own labels in them and sell them as their own.)

The reason why I know this is because a friend of mine and I were going to do just that. My friend contanted Carrillo's and we agreed that his shop would supply us with his model 40 flamencos, if we agreed to a minimum yearly order (at least 12).

That's one highly overworked assistant, if you ask me :) hehe

I'm sure that Carrillo builds *some* of his guitars by hand (with assistants) however, he does not and can not build ALL these different model guitars; it's impossible.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the man. He's great, and from what I hear, a very very nice guy. But, come one... let's be realistic here: two people building 150 guitars a year??

Cheers :)

Dimitri

casasplayer

10-18-2003, 05:37 PM

I had a Carillo Casas guitar built to my specifications in 2000. I wanted a 660 mm scale length and a 53 mm nut width and I couldn't locate anyone else who would build a custom guitar anywhere near this price range. It cost me $2500.00 inclusive of import fees & shipping. Here are my observations regarding my instrument:

It has a very clear sound, although not terribly loud. If volume is the primary consideration, I would look elsewhere. It has a body that is smallish with a somewhat narrow waist & based on a Torres design. Tonally it is very balanced although the bass response and sustain is enhanced by the long scale I prefer. Very clear sound--each string in a chord seems to have a lot of separation. I suppose many would find the longer scale difficult, but I have large hands and appreciate the bit of extra room for fingering in the upper registers.

The spruce top is OUTSTANDING in quality. It has a very fine grain and is flawless in appearance. The same can be said about the Indian rosewood back and sides. It does not have any figuring but the grain is beautiful, straight and close. The fingerboard is as good as I have seen. I cannot find any imperfections in any of the materials used. In this respect it was better than expected.

The neck and string alignment is perfect and the action is a bit high, which is to be expected for the long scale. At my request it was given a lacquer finish which is thinly and evenly applied. The fretwork was level but somewhat rough which surprised me but I easily finished it myself.

I was a little anxious about purchasing an instrument sight unseen, but when I received it I was not disappointed. I would bet that due to the Paco flamenco models he now makes he must have increased his staff to keep up so I wonder if the quality is still as good.

jmontes

10-18-2010, 04:34 PM

I also had a concert level 1a guitar built to my specifications by Vicente Carrillo in 2001 (Spruce top, Brazilian Rosewood b/s, 52 mm nut, 650mm scale, extra fret for the e & b treble strings, Fustero tuners, French polish). The separation between strings is very articulate and balanced, right hand and finger responsiveness is a dream in addition to a nice deep/rich tone. The intonation is immaculate and clean throughout the entire fretboard and higher registers in addition to crisp harmonics.

Vicente uses a Santos Hernandez inspired bracing system with some minor modifications of his own. And yes, Vicente personally is involved in his highest quality guitars using traditional guitar making methods and a small staff of assistants. And yes, like many growing guitar shops they have lower-end models that can be produced in factory type environments outside of the main luthiers shop. This is not an uncommon practice in the guitar business with names such as Ramirez, Contreras, Kenny Hill, Cordoba, Raimundo, Loriente etc.