guitar supports and posture

[Richard Reynoso]

Hello, I'm a classical guitar player who used to play on my left knee and I can no longer play in that positon due to strain in my back :( . Now I play on my right knee with my legs crossed and this has many limitations. It seems I have tryed every guitar support and none of them seem to help me. This is very frustraiting for me because I can no longer practice or, enjoy playing. Does any one know of any other guitar supports other than the norm like dynarette, gitano etc.... : Also, is there a teacher in the Los Angeles area who can help with posture? Any help would be great!

[keith]

on one of the l.a.g.q. albums, andrew york is playing with his left leg crossed over the right and the guitar supported on the left leg. i once saw an old beginner's book that showed how girls and women could hold the guitar while wearing a dress (the guitar equivalent of not wearing patent leather shoes i guess). the style was crossing the left leg over the right. another is to put the stool under the right (yes right) foot.

here is a good question to pose to anyone who has knowledge of ergonomics/biomechanics:

since it is important when playing the classical guitar to get the guitar in the "proper position" does it make sense to lower the sitting platform (chair stool, etc.) to the point where both legs are equally bent and the guitar is in "the proper position" or at least close to it? in this position both legs would be equally bent, or close to it, thus reducing the one knee high/one knee low problems (which ultimately affects the back). if desired, minimal (say an inch or two) elevation would be required for the left leg.

[RML]

Richard:

I had the same problem. I used to use the foot stool and I started with lower back pain. A lot of guitarists have this problem and they accept it as a normal thing. However this is very bad to accept it because if you hold this pain you will necessarily stop to play. the pain in the lower back is mainly caused by the foot stool because you don't have both legs at the same height. Guitar supports are definitively better because you have both legs balanced. You can go to the chiropractic and he will fix your back. Once the back is fixed you need to maintain a straight position. Another thing, try to play looking yourself to a mirror. If you have your legs opened and your chest is in the direction of the legs in which the guitar is set, that is wrong and that will cause pain. Your chest has to be pointing between your legs in a centered, natural, straight position. Another advice is to make several rests, don't play all the 6/8 hours followed. Take the time to stretch every 20/30 min, switch the leg where the guitar is set, play in different chairs, play in the sofa, play laid down in the bed. The last thing, in order to prevent back problems you need to have a strong back. Make daily exercise for the back strength and flexibility, swimming, etc.

Hopefully, this will help you a bit.

[keith]

there is little if any disagreement with the concept of moving about, shifting positions, and developing a strong and flexible trunk, etc. this is very important for everyone, especially those of us who sit at a desk for work.

however, i think the question arises as to what position puts the least amount of stress (all other factors held constant) on the intervertebral disks; which positions allows the trunk muscles to remain flexible under load; and finally, which position does not stress other body parts (e.g., shoulders, neck). it could very well be that the end result is a trade off between different body parts and different positions. the height of the player may also affect positioning.

one of issues that may become salient over time is how using a guitar support, which seems very practical, is going to affect other body parts (especially the shoulder). this may be most obvious with folks who are tall.

it seems a master's thesis is begging to be written here--or maybe someone has written one on this subject.

[deb]

A good physical therapist should be able to help you strenghthen and stretch the muscles which are causing you problems. You might look for an expert in the Alexander technique, they work on posture and movement. I would trust one of these people more than a guitar teacher to help you play in a healthy manner. Good luck, I hope you are able to find a way to play without pain.

[scarabelot]

I have been using the Dynarette cushion for about a year now. I liked it so much, in fact, that I bought two of them! It feels much better during hours of practicing.But I must say that I practice Yoga and Ta'i Chi daily, which I am sure is helping me a lot too!

The key point is probably the sum of all these: a) being relaxed, b) concentration on your movements, c) alternating positions, d) resting every 30 min. or so, e) having some form of body-related activity such as Yoga or T'ai Chi Ch'uan.

Good luck!

[adrian]

For more information:
http://www.guitarsalon.com/store.php?it=ACDYNVA-01456

[rumbamaster]

The best way to maximize playing and minimise pain is a way that my teacher taught me back when I was at GIT. Use a strap! Put a stap pin on the heel of your neck and you'll play in total comfort. For one your guitar is angled to the proper classical guitar position. Also your feet will be flat on the floor and you can lean up against the back of your chair to keep your back straight. Also for you giging musicians out there, you can stand or sit and it feels exactly the same, you will be equally comfortable either way. Since I've started using a strap and tossed my footstool, my back has never felt better. Try it out and you'll see what I mean.

[Dave Olsson]

I know of another guitar support system from Janssen Guitar Products of Denver CO. It's expensive in comparison to other leg rests but is almost infinitely adjustable. One can also get an arm support in concert with the leg rest, making it possible to really custom fit the guitar to the player. The guy who invented it, Tim Johnson, is a graduate of the DU guitar program, and studied with Ricardo Iznaola there. He studied the Alexander method and incorporated what he learned into the supports. He's a good teacher and a nice guy. You should call him and get the lowdown from him personally.

[stepheng]

I don't have trouble with the back.
My problem is with tendonitis in my left and/or right elbows.

Any suggestions ??

[edspyhill]

I use an Efel Guitar Support. It uses a suction cup to attach
to the side. It keeps the neck at the right angle for me and
keeps the guitar very steady. I tried the Dynarette but the
guitar moved around too much. Tried a Neck Up but it was
too bulky. I think GHS makes a very similar model as the
Efel. Stepen Rak is the inventer and manufacturer of the
Efel but I cannot get to his web site lately to buy a backup Efel.
(I could not bring myself to drill holes and mount strap
buttons on my guitar.)
Stepen Rak, are you still out there?

[edspyhill]

Stepheng,

I have the same problem with my left elbow. There are books with
stretching exercises for that problem. I'll check my bookcase for
any books and the web for exercises. I keep left hand work to a
minimum during my morning practice session before I go to work.
I avoid repeated movements like fast scales in the first four positions.
I started taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin about 2 weeks ago
and that is helping. I wear a neoprene elbow support most days
and that helps to keep the heat in the area. (Ever notice how cold
to the touch the elbow feels when it is hurting?) And I tape very
powerful magnets over the tendons when they start to bother me.
This is very new age and weird but I swear it helps. The stretching
exercises are the most important thing we can do.

[edspyhill]

Oops. Stepan Rak endorsed the Efel Guitar Support, someone else manufactured it. And I know Stepan Rak is "still out there". I must repeat over and over "I will not post at midnight when I'm tired".

[Guest]

Richard,
I used to suffer with back and shoulder problems when using a footstool and found that the use of a drum throne with a back cushion ( TAMA model HT 741) (www.tama.com) and the use of a proper guitar support (ARIA available from Kirkpatrick Guitar Studios ---www.Guitar1stop.com) helped tremendously. The drum throne back cushion moves in and out as well as up and down in order to position it into the lumbar region of your back With the back supported, the back pain is essentially eliminated. The guitar support allows for a steady guitar position and is not subject to rocking such as a guitar cushion might be.
Hope this helps!
Guest

[snetzley]

I find that the height of what I'm sitting on has a lot to do with how tired my back gets when I'm playing.

What works best for me is a seat at a height such that my hips, knees, and ankles can rest comfortably at right angles, and I use the Gitano guitar support. I rest the guitar on my left leg and can keep my back centered and straight. Sometimes if I get on a roll and play for awhile, I occasionally put the guitar on my right leg for just a little while to let my body just be in a different position.

I also agree with the person who mentioned doing yoga or tai chi. We should all have a regular stretching program.

[Flynn]

I use guitar rest by Aria and very happy with that. Pic is here (http://flynn.hoha****/aria.jpg)

[classicalmark]

Hello friends,
A lot of these supports will elevate the guitar to a better position but you usually end up sacrificing stability in the process thus turning your fretting hand into a support.
With the guitar resting securely on both legs in the traditional manner the right arm serves as a counterbalance stabilizing the guitar allowing the fretting hand freedom of motion to accomplish difficult passages with the least amount of stress. I have used the Dynarette cushion and find that it is not as stable as the traditional position making the guitar wobbly and sacrificing right and left hand accuracy.
I’ve used two footstools (one for each foot) at differing heights; also I’ve tried using a low footstool along with a small cushion both with some success, however I think the traditional can’t be beat.
Experiment, I’m sure you’ll find something that works for you.
With respect,
Mark

[Sia]

I have a back problem and have tried many types of chairs over the years and none had been quite so good. I saw a suggestion in this thread to try the Tama HT741 drum throne.

I would have never guessed that a drum throne would be the best guitar seat for me, but it is amazing.

I think GSI should carry this product. Perhaps Tama can customize a guitar version...