Ramirez Questions.....Guitar Questions.....

[Jonny Hotnuts]

A few weeks ago I got this sweet little '81 1a. And while I am very fond of this guitar I do have some questions.


1. How do you know if it is a BR or IR.? How much does this affect price, tone and structure (I know BR has a tendency to be a bit temperamental with cracks and whatnot.)

2. What is meant with the term "French polish", what is the process? Were all 1a's French polished if not, know to you tell.

3. I was always told that it was a sin to re-finish guitars. But I have seen people talk about "new French polish" like it was a good thing to do. Is it, how much does it cost and who does it? (Also does it raise the value?)

4. I worked for a large guitar manufacture for years (solid electrics) and we used to put a very light coat of vegetable oil on our rosewood fingerboards (by rubbing with a towel with a small amount of oil). This made the fingerboards look nice and prevented them from drying out and cracking. I have done this (about every 3 string changes) with all my rosewood necks for years and they all look like new, never a crack warp or split. Has anyone tried a like method for treating the inside of rosewood guitars.



Thanks...
Jonny Hotnuts

[Dimitri]

>How do you know if it is a BR or IR.? How much does this affect price, tone and structure (I know BR has a tendency to be a bit temperamental with cracks and whatnot.)

Is the wood full of swirls and/or knots? Then it's probably BR :)

Long ago, GOOD Rio rosewood was quite dark and straight-grained. But in the last 50+ years, its supply and quality has dwindled severely, and the majority of BR out there today is sub-standard and (in my opinion) not as good as Indian and Madagascar rosewood.

>What is meant with the term "French polish", what is the process? Were all 1a's French polished if not, know to you tell.

It's a technique of applying thin layers of shellac, entirely by hand, to create a soft, beautiful finish. Ramirez hasn't french-polished their guitars (to my knowledge) since the early 20th century.

> I was always told that it was a sin to re-finish guitars. But I have seen people talk about "new French polish" like it was a good thing to do. Is it, how much does it cost and who does it? (Also does it raise the value?)

You will probably damage the guitar top if you try to switch a lacquer finish into a french polish shellac finish.

But if the finish is ALREADY french polished, then yes, you can do touch-up french polish work to restore the finish.

>4. I worked for a large guitar manufacture for years (solid electrics) and we used to put a very light coat of vegetable oil on our rosewood fingerboards (by rubbing with a towel with a small amount of oil). This made the fingerboards look nice and prevented them from drying out and cracking. I have done this (about every 3 string changes) with all my rosewood necks for years and they all look like new, never a crack warp or split. Has anyone tried a like method for treating the inside of rosewood guitars.

I don't own any guitars with rosewood fretboards. All my guitars have ebony fretboards. I've never used vegetable oil, but I do use a substance called Fast Fret which works fine for me.

Cheers.
Dimitri

[keith]

gotta concur with dimitri on this--you might want to look at some of the guitars g.s.i. sells that have indian and brazillian to get an idea of the wood. if it is a 1a maybe the ramirez folks have data on it (use the serial number).

if you read jose ramirez's book, things about the guitar, one aspect of guitar making that jose iii did was to formulate a varnish that he found to produce the tone he wanted. so i suspect it is varnished. again, the ramirez folks would know.

as to oiling the fretboard. i have head some folks say a light oil once every 6 months is good. some folks say otherwise. this may be a good question for the g.s.i. folks. i know a 0000 steelwool every 6 months removes the crud on the wood and shines up the frets. notice though, that it is the 4 zero variety--extremely very fine. if you are contacting the ramirez folks, oiling the fretboard may be a good question to ask.

hey dimitri if you read this, do you have any knowledge concerning the strings sabicas used. there seems to be a mystery brewing out here about them?

[Dimitri]

>do you have any knowledge concerning the strings sabicas used. there seems to be a mystery brewing out here about them?

Savarez basses (red card)
La bella trebles (medium tension)

Cheers.
Dimitri

[keith]

boy the plot does thicken. here is my e-mail (thought you would like the info) so we can discuss outside of the public eye.

prattk@vinfen.org. (work)

send me one--aaron is part of this mystery too. i think you will find it interesting.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Thanks all.
What I was looking for.

:wink:

[Miguel]

Hi there,

Looks like most of your questions have already been answered, but I'd still like to add a couple of things:

1. Indian or Brazilian?
like said before, if the grain is very intricate, with many swirls and knots it is probably Brazilian (although sometimes Brazilian is also straight grained). In terms of tone, that is debatable: some people swear they can hear a difference between Indian and Brazilian, others swear there is none. What can be said for sure is that Brazilian is usually more visually exuberant.

2. French Polish/lacquer
French Polish refers to the method to apply the finish. The actual substance is called shellac. The Ramirez workshop is particularly proud of their formula for lacquer, and therefore they use it on MOST of their guitars. On the other hand, they do use French polish if a client requests it. It's tricky to tell them apart, but French Polish looks somewhat "oily", whereas lacquer is usually shinier, almost like plastic. If you have an experienced luthier close to you they can probably tell you which type of finish your guitar has.

3. Re-finishing guitars
The problem with re-finishing (particularly with lacquer) is that it involves sanding out the finish completely. But along the process you will invariably scrape out some of the wood. This will change the tone of the guitar, and will probably reduce its value. One of the beauties of French polish is that it can usually be restored WITHOUT re-finishing. Sometimes doing a little over-polish (applying new shellac over the old one) is all that's needed. It depends on the specific circumstance.

4. Oiling the inside of rosewood guitars.
I would avoid that. Oiling the fingerboard is usually safe. The inside of the guitar is a different story. Fingerboards are usually treated with some sort of sealer. The inside is usually not. Therefore, oiling the inside would most probably ruin your guitar. The best way of avoiding cracks is by making sure your guitar is stored in 40%-70% relative humidity. For more info on this topic check out this article:

http://www.guitarsalon.com/index.php?site_url=108

Hope this helps. Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions. Have fun with your Ramirez 1A!

Miguel
GSI

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Thanks Miguel, great info.
:D

[nikpearson]

I was lucky eough to pick up a 1962 Ramirez 1A - Spruce & Brazilian rosewood, a few months ago, for the princely sum of £800 ($1200). As the previous posts suggest Brazillian Rosewood tends to have a wilder/wavier grain pattern, also darker almost purple colour in places. Brazillian rosewood nearly always attracts a price premium.

Nearly all concert quality ramirez guitars are finished with laquer (1950's onwards). The laquer on my instrument seems to exhibit some of the weaknesses of french polish shellac albeit to a lesser extent. Water turns the laquer cloudy and fingerprints are difficult to wipe off. My advice is leave the finish alone unless it prevents you playing the instrument. Also don't oil the inside of your guitar it really doen't need it! Just keep an eye on humidity and temperature and keep it in a good case.

Enjoy playing your fine instrument. That Ramirez tone is irresistable.

Nick