Recuerdos de la Alhambra,Why would anyone want to play this? [Archive]

Jonny Hotnuts

10-20-2003, 12:01 PM

I understand that it is hard to play.
As a workout it is truly a wonderful tool.
But I can not see this a great song.
Every non-player that I have had listen to this agree.

This will likely piss off many, but so what if you can continue a tremolo while arpegating a chord.
The first 2 minutes are fine but anything more becomes dull.
The melody a child could write.

B.F.D.

People should concentrate on music people other than guitar players can appreciate.

Just raising a little hell.

-JH

keith

10-20-2003, 03:00 PM

hey jonny: i am sure a lot of metalheads would barf at alhambra saying: "oh man, where are the slashing runs up the neckboard with the marshalls cranked to 11?" but, one hundred years from now, will folks be playing: "i slashed your mother's tires because i sniffed too much paint thinner"? probably NOT.

as to alhambra, gee, one hundred years after the fact and it is played daily. one hundred years after the fact it is still considered, by most, to be a truly lovely piece.

the moral of the story: if it stands the test of time, there must be something redeeming.

try playing the piece without the tremelo--it stands up quite well. the tremelo is the proverbial frosting on the cake.

since i do not have such a lovely photo of a guitar player, guess i gotta use my old buddies, the emoticons. only in spirit of raising a little more hell.

QUOTE: :twisted: OH MAN, WHAT I WOULD GIVE TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THAT SONG--JUST THINK, MY HEAD BANGING BUDS WOULD BE SO ENVIOUS

edwardcav

10-20-2003, 03:03 PM

Agreed: You may have raised hell with this post, but we could all deal with some harmless contraversy.

I would say that Recuerdos De le Alhambra is the most commonly recognized piece of music in the solo guitarist's repertoire. Everyone has heard it and a lot have tried to play it.

There is a reason that it has gotten to this status...

Now Jonny have you considered that it may have got there because of its simplicity? The melody is easy, yes, but lyrical, which means it sticks in your memory. The chords are simple but modulate from A-Minor to A-Major halfway through and it's first 10 bars are probably the most played in Guitar World...

That said, of course, I've often found it over-rated. But to say that only guitarists appreciate it, I would find hard to say. I have shown a few non-guitar-players(NGP) and they love it.

Guitar buffs know that there is more challenging, better-sounding guitar tunes in circulation today - but I don't think many would be more satisying to master than old Recuerdos.

adrian

10-20-2003, 03:15 PM

All good points. I would like to add two of my own:

1) There is a difference between an overrated piece and a piece which you've heard so many times, it's lost its luster.

2) I started playing the guitar because pieces like Recuerdos de la Alhambra were so captivating to me.

Now, if I've changed that opinion, is it because I was wrong and have come to know better? Or is it that I've been exposed to other music and my musical tastes have simply changed. Does that make it a lame piece? Methinks not.

Adrián,
GSI

keith

10-20-2003, 03:22 PM

last week while driving home from maine to boston, i stopped by guitar center to play the ramirez 1a there. i was playing leyenda when some kid who wanted an electric guitar stopped and asked where he could learn the piece. maybe someday we will hear leyenda on an electric guitar with the marshalls cranked to 12. but, leyenda on any other 6 strings is leyenda--and it may sound pretty cool at that.

QUOTE: :twisted: OH MAN, THAT DUDE SHOULD PLAY: " RAPPING IN MY CRIB" WITH HIS INSTRUMENT: SCRATCHING A RECORD. NOT SURE IF THAT PIECE WILL SURVIVE A HUNDRED YEARS LIKE LEYENDA.

NGiorgio

10-20-2003, 05:02 PM

It's a beautiful and inspirational piece of music as well as a terrific exercise. Sometimes less is more. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, one way or another. Try listening to(if you can find it)the John Williams version. I have it on a re-issued CD. Or Pepe Romero's recording of it. When played well, it is still a classic.

Jonny Hotnuts

10-20-2003, 09:31 PM

It seems that everyone that has replied honestly likes the song. Not as an exercise but standing on its own.

Maybe I have been too quick to judge.
Will learn this song, for nothing else to at least have more merit to say I don’t like it.
I concentrate learning songs I like, and likely have forsaken songs that as a guitarist I should learn.

Sorry for being a A-Hole!
(its what I do best!)

-JH

keith

10-21-2003, 05:38 AM

hey jonny hotnuts: a-hole? having an opinion of a song does not make one an a-hole. you provoked a discussion and did not personalize your opinion. you really should stand tall for expressing an opinion to a crowd that is probably overwhelming in favor of the piece. not readily buying into something is a good thing if it opens the mind to the "why's".

john williams once said that there are many pieces he enjoys listening to but does not feel obligated to play. and the opposite is true--there are pieces that may not grab us but are important in our music development. think of doing scales--not much of a tune there, but oh so important.

as to having a different opinion, as a flamenco i cringe when i listen to carlos montoya and do what i can to avoid listening to him. however, many folks have, and do, like him--and may cringe when i play. that is what makes the world go round.

keep up the questioning 8) --if we cannot tolerate questioning of long established traditions, then maybe we, or the traditions, are not that solid.

NGiorgio

10-21-2003, 03:59 PM

Jonny, don't be so hard on yourself. I have found that if you don't like a particular piece of music, no matter how hard you try, you won't get much from it. You need to be inspired. Play music that does move you.

But then, what do I know. I used to think Carlos Montoya was terrific.

RCP1716

10-24-2003, 12:01 PM

This is so far one of the best discussion of this forum. I've read the entire message and I have things to say.
Francisco Tarrega was a guitarist, a composer as well, and he did a lot of transcriptions for the guitar, not to mention that he played an important role in the later development of a Classical Guitar School based in his principles by Emilio Pujol, one of Tarrega student.
I think that the comments left by Johnny saying that a child could be the composer of this piece is out of order, I don't feel the need to explain why, you all know a lot about Classical Guitar and its repertory, so maybe greens leave was composed by a child, but Recuerdos del Alhambra is surely not.
I've read somewhere in the web that Tarrega Recuerdos de la Alhambra was inspired during a trip, maybe he was getting back home and he spent a few hours playing the chords and the melody and the tremolo that later we know as one of his most beautiful compositions. This is not simple to play, may be simple to hear, but, to play this composition well, it will take a lot of efforts. I think this is a phenomenon that happens in Tarrega music. I liked the Capricho Arabe, I thought it was going to be a walk in the park to be played, and is not.
Please share all your comments about my opinions and let me know who agree with me and who don't.
Jhonny: I am so sorry that you will miss this one, try Tarrega other compositions and then get back to this one, maybe you will like it after all. Tarrega works for the guitar are very important and should be learned by all guitarists.

Sia

10-29-2003, 05:41 PM

I am surprised how few people have come to the defense of Recuerdos. Of course, it needs no defense, but I know there are many people out there who love it as much as I do.

In addition to what’s been said, as a guitarist, I think of Recuerdo as one of the most “fun” pieces to play – and I mean the actual mechanics of playing it.

As a musical composition, I think Recuerdo is a masterpiece. I think the melody is rich and colorful. To me and so many others, it evokes the images of Andalucia. I have seen so many non-guitarists that love this piece. On more than one occasion, I have been asked to play it by friends, because they think it’s a great piece of music. So we need a more scientific survey on this one.

NGiorgio

10-30-2003, 09:12 AM

For those out there who like Recuerdos de la Alhambra, check out Michael Chapdelaines website. You can see a video of his live performance of Alhambra. It is worth a look.

Jonny Hotnuts

11-03-2003, 10:58 AM

I have started learning this song.

I am warming up to it.

RCP1716, I said the “melody” a child could write. I understand that Tarregas works are important, and as a rule I like them very much to not only play but to listen too. And while it has a nice melody it is not what I would choose to listen to as someone that likes music, there is just not enough substance. The reason it is so basic is because a single player has limited options when playing a sustained trem. To me this does not a make a great song.

I still stand on the fact that I feel this song is a clever exercise in fingering.
But not a great composition

nikpearson

11-06-2003, 03:39 PM

Does complexity make a piece of music better? Recuerdos does have a simple tune, behind that tricky tremelo technique, but its still a beautiful one. I can't think of many children (Mozart & Mendelssohn included!) who could have come up with such a haunting melody. Each to his or her own though I suppose.

The best version I've heard is by the canadian guitarist Norbert Kraft on the budget Naxos label. Silky smooth tremelo without the oft associated nail noise.

edwardcav

11-06-2003, 08:52 PM

I disagree nikpearson. I found Norbert Kraft's tremolo to be very inconsisten and very naily :? could've been a different recording but definitely by Norbert Kraft...

I've heard heaps of recordings of this masterpiece (sorry jonny) and I would have to say that the best recording out there is Pepe Romero's recording - I forget which CD it is from, but his tremolo is the smooothest and FASTEST!!! ever- check out hs website for video footage of it... www.peperomero.com

nikpearson

11-07-2003, 01:06 PM

Each to their own - I think there's only one recording by Norbert Kraft. He plays the piece more slowly than most and varies the speed of his tremelo a good deal. On a high resolution system the sound is certainly the warmest and cleanest I've heard - never inconsistent, never too much nail.

Jonny Hotnuts

11-07-2003, 04:23 PM

Hey Ed C., I liked the Pepe Romero version much better than the one I have (segovia I think). Would like to here other versions as well.

Feeling now after hearing Pepe Romero's take, maybe I was a bit too quick to judge.

From the video I could not see what he is doing, but feel he is likely using 3 fingers to do the trem (and all in upstrokes).

Is this the norm for the tune? It feels natural to me and is the only way I can get a consistant flow but never asked how anyone else does it.

-JH

edwardcav

11-07-2003, 05:16 PM

Thanks for your opinion Jonny! It's great when someone agrees!

Like I said, I have heard many versions and I believe Pepe's is far and away the best.

Your assumptions about the tremolo is correct. P-a-m-i but you watch that video closely - the consistency which Pepe hits the rest stroke with his thumbs is truly amazing, like there is no effort at all.

Another of Pepe's recordings that illustrates his smooth technique is Farrucas from the album "Flamenco Fenomeno!". It is fantastic, truly like there is two guitars playing and one with a pick.

You'll find that the P-A-M-I-P-A-M-I tremolo and bass notes pattern is the most common method of playing this piece.

Good to hear you're coming around Jonny 8)

edwardcav

11-07-2003, 05:19 PM

just wanted to add that the recording of farrucas i mentioned above is probably the best flamenco recording i have ever heard...

adrian

11-07-2003, 05:33 PM

I have to agree with you ed...I think Pepe is seriously underrated as a flamenco player and that whole album is some of the best playing--period. :wink:

Here are two excerpts for those who don't know it:
Fiesta en Jerez (http://www.guitarsalon.com/sound/2420-07%20Fiesta%20en%20Jerez.mp3)
Jota (http://www.guitarsalon.com/sound/2421-11%20Jota.mp3)

Here's the CD:
Pepe Romero: Guitar Festival (http://www.guitarsalon.com/store.php?it=CDGUIRO-03011)

edwardcav

11-07-2003, 05:45 PM

I'm not sure if that is the same recording - as mine goes for a bit past 4 mins and the one listed on that CD goes to almost 6... either way, Pepe is superhuman. I'd probably say that he is the best in the world at playing both flamenco and classical styles on the solo guitar.

Sia

11-08-2003, 12:55 PM

It is really hard to compare different renditions of Recuerdos. Each version can be great in its own right. Here are 3 of my favorite renditions, but not in any order:

- Liona Boyd (Best of Liona Boyd)
- Narciso Yepes (Asturias: The art of the guitar)
- Christopher Parkening (In the Spanish Style)

John Williams has a couple of great versions as well, but I think it lacks the feeling present in the three I selected.

This is a highly subjective area and it would be great to hear a lot of opinions.

Jonny Hotnuts

11-10-2003, 06:19 PM

Edwardcav,

Please understand that while I have played guitar for a very long time I have only played classical for about 7 months (very dedicated seven months!)

I hate to ask but explain the P-a-m-i, I know they are left hand finger indicators but not sure what ones they rep.

Thanks Ed!

-JH

edwardcav

11-10-2003, 08:14 PM

Your right hand's fingers, from left to right, are represented by letter as follows:

P (thumb) I (index) M (Middle) A (I forget what this one stands for) C (chiquito, or little finger)

so look at your hand, it goes from left to right pimac. say it! PIMAC

So by saying: use the tremolo pattern PAMI, it would mean to tremolo using those fingers in that progression which is the standard tremolo for classical guitar. In Flamenco guitar (NGiorgio, is thia right?) I believe the tremolo they use is PimamiPimami and so on.

For 7 months on the classical guitar only, I would stay away from this piece of music. If your tremolo is not fully developed, it MIGHT do you more harm than good...

But if you really wanna learn it, stick with it - I guess it will pay off.

Sia: I listened to parkening and boyd. Still not impressed. It is a tricky piece played best by Pepe romero. To this date noone has recorded a more fitting rendition of Recuerdos de la alhambra. thats debatable, however.

Jonny: get ahold of Farrucas by Pepe romero. Listen to his tremolo on a flamenco guitar. Too fast to determine whether it is Pami or Pimami. A neat recording, however

NGiorgio

11-10-2003, 09:59 PM

The "a" (ring finger) is called annular. Classical four note tremolo is usually played *p*a*m*i. There are some players who may use variations, such as *p*i*m*a. The Flamenco five note tremolo is *p*i*a*m*i. There are variations on that as well.

Check out Keith's suggestions for practicing tremolo.

edwardcav

11-10-2003, 10:28 PM

NGiorgio, you play flamenco, right? How do you rate Pepe's skills as a flamenco guitarist? Have you heard the recording of Farrucas that I am referring to?

NGiorgio

11-11-2003, 08:44 AM

Ed.

I am a Classical player, studying the Art of Flamenco for only a few years. I have not heard Pepe Romero's recording which you mentioned. I have heard only small bits and pieces of his flamenco playing but he is a terrific guitarist. I think that if such a gifted player as Pepe Romero had devoted all of his efforts towards flamenco, he would be one of the best. His flamenco playing is very traditional and perhaps a bit conservative (from the little I have heard) but as a classical player and an interpreter of Spanish music, I think he is fantastic. That is why his version of Alhambra is so emotional. I studied with a well known and respected South American guitarist/composer who thinks that Pepe Romero has the best classical tremolo. And remember that the Romeros came from Malaga which is one of the historic centers of flamenco in Spain.

Jonny Hotnuts

11-11-2003, 06:46 PM

Edwardcav, I know this may sound self placating (not meant too) but my ability to take a difficult song and learn it to tempo is "not human".
I find most classical music not that challenging.

http://4.18.36.7/gsiforum/viewtopic.php?t=296

Recuerdos now represents a technique that I currently have not mastered.
And resisted learning because it is not widely used in most classical music, this is damn near the only song that I know that has a sustained trem.

But my focus is changing simply to have this song as a tool to develop the trem. And to be able to say that I can play it.

I understand your concern in "jumping too far too fast" but I will have this song learned to tempo by next month.

BTW:
Thanks for the p-m-i info, makes sense now. I was thinking the "P" was the pinky!!!!!!

I am so silly!

-JH

edwardcav

11-11-2003, 09:40 PM

I suppose it all depends on what you want out of the guitar. If you want to nail that piece, speed right through, I don't mean to discourage.

Once you have got that tremolo down, try pieces like Barrios: Una Limosna Por El Amor De Dios (La 'Ultima Cancio'N) - From The Great Paraguayan. I think it is even prettier than the Ode to the alhambra.

I'm curious Jonny... Do you have a teacher? I started on acoustic and electric styles before conveting to classical also, and a huge problem I had in the transition was my left hand thumb peeking over the top of the guitar's neck. This was only spotted out to me by a teacher, and since then I have been ever keen to perfect technique - and to this day am far from it.

So I consider my technique a little to unstable for pieces such as recuerdos. Just yet.

Sia

11-11-2003, 10:24 PM

Edward,

I am surprised you are not impressed with Liona Boyd's version. It is flawless. The recording is a bit old, but the perfection still shows through. I guess this stuff is very subjective, that two people can disagree so strongly about a given performance.

I don't have Romero's version. I couldn't buy the single track MP3 online, so I will buy the CD this weekend. I hope it's as good as you say. :)

Jonny Hotnuts

11-12-2003, 07:51 PM

Sia, the track is able to be downloaded (in video) from his site. No need to buy the whole thing if you only want one track.

-JH

Sia

11-12-2003, 08:23 PM

Johnny, Thanks for the tip! Great idea!

Edward, I just saw/heard the Pepe Romero Recuerdos. I think he has a nice tremolo, but his rest-stroke-style base is very choppy and distracting. I think it is played with less emotion than any of the versions I mentioned.

Sorry to disagree, I think Liona Boyd's version is much better.

edwardcav

11-13-2003, 01:45 AM

When I get the chance, I will sit down and really analyse both - with my aurally trained music ear 8) - and get back to you guys here.

RCP1716

11-15-2003, 05:26 PM

Let me say that I believe that there is not such thing as who is the best performer of any particular piece. In my modest opinion, Musical competition, in our instruments known as (Guitar competition) is not the best way to find out who is the best guitar player around. The most complete musician is the one that can communicate with his audience instead of playing a vast and complicated repertoire from all musical times. I like David Russel version of Recuerdos de la Alhambra from the CD Tarrega Integral de Guitarra, I can hear all the notes of the tremolo going so fast and perfect, while the melody stand slow and romantic. David plays this one with an incredible feeling of lost and sadness very occasional for this masterpiece. I also like the way Sharon Isbin played Recuerdos, even when I don't like her playing other pieces but I really like the way she does with Recuerdos. Just adding some other guys to the list so maybe you can agree that there is not a best performer of any particular piece. All musician will express their feelings in different ways, is not a matter of who is the best, but who is the best one related to your own way of hearing and feeling music.

classicalmark

11-15-2003, 08:16 PM

Sia,
I'm with you I think Liona Boyd and Christopher Parkening's performance of "Recuerdos de la Alhambra" are two of the most expressive and beautiful interpretations I've heard. Although I unfortunately have not had the privilage of experiencing Pepe Romero's version as of yet. With that said for my Australian friend "edwardcav" to endorse it so, I've got to hear it. I've ordered it and hopefully will be able to comment on it next week sometime.
Respectfully,
Mark

edwardcav

11-15-2003, 08:20 PM

Liona's rendition is played much slower, I am yet to determine what effect this has on her weak tremolo; which are distinctly triplets and no where near as smooth as Pepe's. Her playing seems contained. The use of varied louder dynamics, (which should be taken advantage of in a piece as evocative as alhambra) be it the fault of her guitar or her ability, are ignored by Liona. Her tremolo is uneven and there are certain notes in her tremolo that differ which are unintentionally more emphasised then other notes in the tremolo. I also don't like the recording, it makes the gutiar sound dead as if it were recorded out of a cardboard box. This is not to take anything from Liona, who is a brilliant guitarist - but the truth is that her recording of Recuerdos De la Alhambra is not up to the standard of Pepe Romero's.

Pepe's rendition is simply flawless. He gets away with playing it fast because his bass notes are so clear and defined where his tremolo is superfast and smooth - smoother than any other guitarist around. As for choppy thumb rest-stroke? I can see where you are coming from, and will get to that later. Pepe's recording is more haunting due to the obvious natural reverb that his studio posseses. His tremolo is like a machine gun, BANG-BANG-BANG: each of them equaidistant from each other and consistent in volume, tone colour and texture. Although he doesn't mix up his speed and tempo much in the piece, this is done on purpose so not to overdo it. The subtle drop-off techniques and tiny ritardandos thrown in are simply superb. Having said all that, I don't much like the sound of his guitar in the recording, and we can only wonder what Pepe would come up with should he have a guitar more suited to Alhambra in his hands. Sia, this is why I believe you find his bass notes distracting. Pepe's rest strokes are smooth, but choppy tone colour and quality is emphasised through a guitar that is debatably not up to the task of recording alhambra.

I am in the process of allocating David Russel's rendition of Recuerdos de la Alhambra. I think I have heard it before. But I will allocate it anyway. I have a funny feeling it will be fairly thrown into the long list of accomplished guitarists (where figureheads such as Segovia and John Williams live) who fail to produce a recording of Alhambra up to the high standards of Pepe Romero.

I also debate whether Francisco Tarrega could perform the piece with as much success as Pepe if he were around today...

classicalmark

11-15-2003, 08:47 PM

Edwardcav,
It looks like we're both on at the same time.
I just e-mailed you about some of the music you inquired about.
I'll also also burn you a compilation of all the versions I have of "Recuerdos de la Alhambra", off the top of my head I currently have versions by; Segovia, Bream, Williams, Parkening, Boyd, Russel, Isbin, Noad and a few lesser knowns. I may be mistaken, but I think Liona has a couple of different versions of this masterpiece, I'll have to serch my archives.
Respectfully,
Mark

Sia

11-16-2003, 01:34 AM

I think Liona has a couple of different versions of this masterpiece

Mark,
I can recall two: one in the Best of Liona Boyd and a version with instrumental background in Persona. I would be interested to hear of any other versions.

I would also like to hear David Russels's version.

Edward,

Thank you for your quantitative analysis of these two performances. Your analysis is very impressive.

But as RCP1716 mentioned, there is also a highly qualitative component to this. It may be that Pepe's version is flawless in some mechanical sense, but in my opinion it does not capture the beauty and the mystique of this piece.

Let's say I want to relax and listen to some music, and I have a choice of Recuerdos by Liona or Pepe. I cannot imagine that I would ever pick Pepe's version over Liona's, no matter how mechanically perfect it is.

I don't think the "choppy" rest stroke has anything to do with the guitar. I can't tell what guitar he is playing in this piece, but it certainly looks high-quality . I know he has an impressive list of guitars including some by Contreras, Hauser, Rodriguez, Giussani and even an original Torres. I believe he wants to achieve a staccato effect for the base notes. This is his interpretation of this piece. It's novel, but it doesn't appeal to me.

I have to agree with RCP1716, in that at the level of these masters, we can't say which version is the best. They are simply incomparable. We can only say which versions appeal to us (and possibly express why that is the case).

One final note. The fact that we are having this debate here is a testament to grandeur of this masterpiece. It also provides an answer to Jonny's question regarding the musical merit of Recuerdos.

(Sorry for the long post)

edwardcav

11-16-2003, 01:59 AM

I believe he wants to achieve a staccato effect for the base notes.

Staccato bass note? I don't think so. Listen closely. The guitar dies... I hope we have got the same recording.

The version of Liona's that I sourced is the one from the "best of" CD.

I'm sorry if I don't get into Liona's rendition. The very idea of the tremolo study is to provide an effect of having a constant melody; an illusion, even. The notes of the melody revolve around groups of three (a-m-i, where the first provides an ongoing arpeggio in the bass notes) that need to be smooth and accurate if that illusion is to come off effectively.

Let's say I want to relax and listen to some music, and I have a choice of Recuerdos by Liona or Pepe. I cannot imagine that I would ever pick Pepe's version over Liona's, no matter how mechanically perfect it is.

Mechanical perfection is a start, but Liona's tremolo is not near consistent enough to compete. Liona's recording is probably the second best ever, but the sheer fact that her tremolo is uneven loses that "mystique"... It loses that "beauty". Why? Purely because the MELODY is ignored and becomes rusty with her struggling tremolo. I'm sorry, we disagree here, and I enjoy conflict! 8) All friendly however, Sia. The melody is half the piece, and if it is struggling, than the emotion is gone.

That said, I have SEEN a performer carry out a rendition of Alhambra that is just as good, if not better than Pepe's. In fact, it was by one of Pepe's student. His name is Scott Tennant, and he is famed for his Pumping Nylon series. Get the DVD. Check it out, I think we can meet halfway here, Sia. He seems to caputre the timeless movement and tempo variations of Liona's bass notes, but the flawless tremolo and subtle volumatic fluctuations of Pepe's playing.

One final note. The fact that we are having this debate here is a testament to grandeur of this masterpiece. It also provides an answer to Jonny's question regarding the musical merit of Recuerdos.

How true... And as long as we are all individuals, we will enjoy different pieces, arrangements and recordings of music for different reasons. And I think that it is really interesting to hear WHY a certain aspect of music (in this case, a recording of Recuerdos de la Alhambra) appeals to certain people. Let's see what everyone else reckons... Jonny? You've gone quiet... NGiorgio? Kieth?

Sorry about the two massive posts.

nikpearson

11-16-2003, 04:34 AM

This thread is a really good example of how peoples' musical tastes differ.
I've listened again to the various versions of the Recuerdos in my record collection. I prefer the warmer recordings i.e. analogue or more recent digtal; varying tremelo speed that really wrings out the beauty of the piece; and little nail noise - those scratchy little sounds on most versions I've heard.

I still prefer Norbert Krafts recording. Closely followed by Narciso Yepes. I've now listened to the Pepe Romero recording and whilst his speed & technique are certainly impressive, I find the recording a tad cold & mechanical, lacking the fluency of my favourites. I've not had the opportunity to hear either Liona Boyd's or Christoper Parkening's recordings.

Vive la difference.

Nick

NGiorgio

11-16-2003, 07:22 AM

I'll stick with what I posted earlier on this subject. My two favorite versions are John Williams and Pepe Romero's. Although I haven't heard all of the versions mentioned, I am sure that there are many more excellent performances of Requerdos out there.

On the Romero video, it could be a Rodriquez guitar. It is hard to tell but at one point the rosette is visable and looks like a Rodriquez to me. It is a big, full and rich Spanish sound.

I like the piece, so I enjoy everyones version of it. I just like some better than others.

steve v

11-16-2003, 08:27 AM

It's definitely a Rodriguez. You can tell both from the rosette and from the headstock, when the video finally shows a close-up view of the headstock about two-thirds of the way through.

NGiorgio

11-16-2003, 12:40 PM

From someone who knows. Steve, how about your opinions on Recuerdos?

How's the new guitar?

steve v

11-16-2003, 12:53 PM

Ngiorgio,

The "new" Rodgriguez is a nice guitar, but just that: nice. It's not outstanding. And for the price being charged, it would have to knock my socks off, so to speak. I already own a cedar Rodriguez that is just a phenomenal instrument, and the spruce one that arrived on approval doesn't even begin to compare to it. So, it will go back.

As far as Recuerdos, I've been staying out of this thread. Musical likes and dislikes are so subjective that it's impossible to prove who is "best," or whose interpretation is better. Personally, I find Pepe Romero's style of playing on almost every single piece that I've heard him play to be extremely lifeless; technically proficient, yes, which is the strength that edcav keeps pointing to in his repeated assertions that Pepe's version of Recuerdos is the best, but basically just dry and lifeless. I don't care about the ability to move fingers faster than anybody else; what I care about, once a certain level of technical competency is achieved, is the feeling and emotion, the expressiveness, that gets put into a piece. Given a choice, I'll listen to Segovia or Bream play anything, and I strongly suspect that edcav would prefer many other artists. But neither of us will ever prove the other to be wrong.

steve v

11-16-2003, 12:55 PM

classicalmark

11-16-2003, 03:49 PM

Hey Steve,
I think you're using too much reverb.
Mark

steve v

11-16-2003, 04:04 PM

Well, I'm still not sure how that message got posted twice....

Sia

11-16-2003, 04:33 PM

Edward and others,

Thanks for all the responses. This has been a great discussion. It is always good to sharpen our understanding of why we like something.

NGiorgio and Steve V,

It is impresive that you can recognize the guitar by the rosette and headstock. I wonder if there is a webpage that shows all the rosettes of notable guitars and classifies them by the design pattern.

NGiorgio

11-17-2003, 08:11 AM

Sia,

I do not know if there is such a website. Rodriquez has one the most distinctive and recognizable rosettes. Some luthiers use a few different rosette designs while others use the same one. Fleta guitars have been using what appears to be the same rosette for two generations.

Headstock designs are another way of knowing who built a guitar. Some are again, more recognizable than others. Ramirez, Fleta, Contreras, Conde Hermanos, Hauser and others have been using the same headstock pattern for generations.

fernsemer

10-22-2004, 06:51 AM

bryan

10-22-2004, 09:28 AM

With all this discussion about Recuerdos de la Alhambra I must be in a
catagory all my own. As much as I like hearing Recuerdos de la Alhambra
I have a problem with the key signature. Sometimes I think I would Like
to hear the piece a third higher.

Has anybody ever made a recording with a caypo across the third fret?
A C minor recording perhaps. I think I would like that.

I think I'm poing to get shot out of the saddle for suggesting that, but
hey....it is a suggektive topic. Any comments?

You do like to instigate controversy :lol: Just kidding. I don't see how it could sound bad a third higher. The song itself is structurally great. Changing keys will sound different but I don't think it will sound disturbing. I say give it a try a third higher and see how it sounds. Maybe record it and let the rest of us have a listen too.

sorin popovici

10-22-2004, 08:33 PM

I have one question to the players who own a good score for this piece .
I have seen 2 versions :
in the first the song begins with a tremolo on the b string on the fifth fret
(E note) and in the second the song begins with tremolo on the first string(E open string).

For me as a player when i try to play this, it is easier to play tremolo on the first string (and i get better volume also) but i'm obsessed with the "right way to do things"(the way most good players do it).
so which is it ? on the first or the seond string ?

the score I used to learn it is available for download at
www.eythorsson.com

as for ...if this is a good song or not ...i remember this:
Three years ago I was at a classical guitar recital.The player 's name was
Stathis Skandalidis.After a few days from the event i've met him in a bus station waiting for something ...imagine my joy ...soon i asked him all the questions in the world about guitar(cause his playing really impressed me) .
Now I dont remember all that he said to me but I remember this about art on the guitar: "the best player is the one who can play the simplest pieces beautifully".
I think he is right even now.

Yes, recuerdos is simple as harmonic structure but this should be no surprise to anyone ....Fur Elise is the same (it begins Am than goes E..etc)
....leyenda (some Em ,some B ,some C)and there are many more famous examples.Some weeks ago i was observing relistening to "Friday night in San Fracisco" ,that Mediteranean sundance -Rio ancho is based on these chords Em,C,B7 ...or smth like that.
I was p..ed off ....wow and i thought sometime ago that this toon was the end of guitar playing.

Hey ..this is no discovery ....it's like that since ever:most people like simple things.For me ...as much as I say I dont (like simple things) is the same....in the sorrow times i keep returning to the same old and simple melodies.I know this about myself ,still...l I cant explain it.