Easiest playing guitar.

[Rex]

I am 43 and have mild arthritis in my hands. I am thinking about buying a nice guitar to keep for a long time and was wondering about how various things factor into ease of playing. I currently use medium gauge strings (D'Addarios), 2" nut, 650mm scale, and what I would call an average action on a cedar top guitar. I prefer cedar. Would light strings play much easier? Are there guitars braced to sound good with lighter strings? How about those 'fingerpicking guitars' with 1 7/8" nuts? Would a shorter scale make much difference? Also, how do all these effect the tone? If you were to make just one change to make a guitar easier to play what would it be? I have been playing since I was ten and hope to continue for a long time.

[Rex]

One more question: I have read about some of the new nylon strung guitars having truss rods and thinner necks than the standard classicals. My current guitar does have a truss rod but I don't think the neck is any thinner than other classicals I've played. Does a thinner neck play easier? Thanks for any input. I would especially like to hear from anyone else who has kept playing despite arthritis.

[Sandra]

One more question: I have read about some of the new nylon strung guitars having truss rods and thinner necks than the standard classicals. My current guitar does have a truss rod but I don't think the neck is any thinner than other classicals I've played. Does a thinner neck play easier? Thanks for any input. I would especially like to hear from anyone else who has kept playing despite arthritis.

Rex, I have carpal tunnel syndrome, tendinitis and arthritis. Some days I wake up and my hands are completely numb. It can take some squeezing and stretching to get them to wake up.

I still play, albeit more infrequently.

There are many pieces I would love to be able to play, but the limitations of my hands will forever preculde my being able to master them. Becoming a virtuoso is physically impossible. *sigh*

That does not mean than I cannot enjoy playing. One factor is that I have to choose pieces that challenge me within my abilities but which are not beyond a reasonable stretch.

A few years ago I did an add-on gig with some carolers at Christmas. We played old folks homes and I stayed behind to play guitar when they left to sing to those stuck behind in rooms who hadn't made it to the main hall.

The response I got was wonderful and even a bit overwhelming. There was a lady visiting her father who had been unresponsive for a long time and she said he sat up and cried when I played. Now, I hope he didn't cry because he thought my playing was bad or anything.

Hmm.... there's still time. Maybe I'll try to put together a new mini Christmas routine and play some more old folks homes this season. :)

[Jonny Hotnuts]

By design classical guitars sacrifice playability for natural volume. I would recommend using light tension strings and have a good Luther set up your guitar for maximum ease of playing. (Make sure the nut is low enough, the neck bow is correct and the bridge is low as it can go without buzzing.)

Also consider a classical with electronics,
You can easily make up for lost acoustic volume with a knob turn!

And not to sound like an a-hole but make sure your hand form is correct. I think much of the pain in playing classical guitar is poor left hand form. (Not saying this is in your case, but always something to consider) I say this because the only time my hand hurts is when I sacrifice form for song (odd chords and sustained bass)

Hope you find the answer

-JH

[NGiorgio]

The easiest guitar to play, is the one that you are most comfortable with. It
may be the guitar you have now, or the next instrument that you purchase. Having the action lowered and using lighter gauge strings, as Jonny mentioned is good advice. As far as narrower necks and shorter scale lengths are concerned, that may be a decision made by the size of your hands and the type of music you are playing. Remember that lower action and light gauge strings can create some extra string buzzing. There is always a trade-off for an easier action. Adjustable truss rods in necks are nice to have but are not available on most Classical guitars. When shopping for your next guitar make sure that you purchase from a reputable dealer who is capable and willing to make the necessary adjustments for you. Also, remember that some guitars respond better with medium or hard strings. When the action is lowered as far as is practical (without too much buzzing) you may still be comfortable with a medium gauge string. There is usually some loss of tone and volume when using very light gauge strings on a Classical guitar. You might want to try a set of light gauge strings on your current guitar to see how they sound and feel. Good luck.

[Rex]

Thanks for the replies. Sandra, Thank you for your testamonial. I currently play in a band and we do play some nursing home gigs for free. It is a rewarding thing. My hands are not near as bad as yours, just very stiff in the mornings and sometimes sore after an hour of playing. I can play whatever I want on nylon, so far, but if I pick up my buddies' steelstring guitar I find my self limited and also very sore in the joints for several days afterward. I am looking for the easiest to play set up so I can extend my playing years and not do any more damage to my hands.
Jonny, that is a good idea to take my present guitar to a luthier. Maybe a few adjustments instead of a new guitar would be all I need. Although a thinner neck on my guitar would be out of the question. I would have to play different with a lower action. I am on the edge of buzzing right now case I'm kind of heavy with the right hand. I already have a piezo pickup under my bridge and an active preamp on board. Like I said, I play with a band and we have a sound system. We are all acoustic but we do use amplification, mostly mics, but my present guitar sounds great plugged in. Everybody else in the group (guitars, mandolins, dobro, fiddle, and banjo) use steel strings, except for our bass player and me. Playing into mics and mixing the sound right is neccessary for us, although we practice without sound equipment. The louder ones just have to back off some.
I know nothing about flaminco guitars. I may not even have that spelled correctly. But I have read recently that they have lighter tops and lower actions. Maybe I will try playing some of those at our local music shops. They all seem to have spruce tops though and somehow I have developed an affinity for cedar though I can't explain why. Just the color?

[Sandra]

Rex, my hands are the reason I quit playing mandolin. The doubled steel strings and extreme high tension from the short neck made it much harder to play than classical guitar with nylon strings and lower tension from the longer neck.

Are you taking glucosamine/chondroitin supplements? They're recommended for joint problems like arthritis.

If you decide to look at flamenco guitars, also check into what's termed a "negra", a hybrid flamenco/classical.

[keith]

rex: if you want to stay with cedar and nylon, but want a lower action, you do not need to buy a flamenco guitar. you can lower the action of any guitar, classical included. here is how you do it. loosen the strings, slide the saddle out, get some 150 grit sandpaper, tape it to a table top (keeps it from sliding). an emory board of medium to fine grit also works. sand the bottom (NOT the top since it has an angle to it) to the level you want. DO NOT sand the nut--it should not need it (unless you are doing a huge amount of sanding). sand until you feel you have the fit you want. traditionally, the height between the top of the 12th fret and bass string for a classical is 4.5mm and a flamenco is 3.5mm. so somewhere in between will work. on the treble side the height is about 1mm less.

a ruler and magnifying glass work well in measuring--a rough rule: 3 starbuck sticks from the fretboard to the bottom of the string for the bass side--2 sticks for the treble side.

as to flamenco negras--most have spruce tops. the one company that traditionally uses cedar tops for flamencos is jose ramirez....be prepared to spend at around $5000.

if reach to the top e string is the issue, then a crossover guitar maybe the ticket. from what i have heard, the ramirez cut-aways are great.

of course, you can always have one made for you by a luthier.

as to truss rods on classicals--i know kenny hill uses them but other than him i have not heard of any (does not mean his is the only one though). i have played kenny hill guitars and they are comfortable in neck design and length. but as everyone has said, you just gotta play them puppies to find out.

as to arthritis--i would recommend the following: vitamin i (ibuprofen) and one thing that worked for me: rolfing. if you are familiar with a.b.c. wide world of sports you may remember the agony of defeat--i had one of the agony of defeat mishaps while waterskiing. if you can find a rolfer, maybe a session for you arms/hands would work. generally they prefer to do the whole body (which i would highly recommend) but they may just work on your hands. i swear by rolfing but again, it worked for me (as well as many others around the globe) but it may not work on just hands--or for your condition. good luck

[Scott]

La Patrie uses truss rods on their classicals. They tend to be a slimmer profile neck. They are handmade in Canada, but are only $600 guitar so if you are looking for a high end then may not be for you. They actually are nice guitars. I've played a few and consistency seemed to be an issue across them but if you find the right one...
Regards,
- Scott

[Rex]

Sandra, small world! I have played mandolin for 12 years and just 5 minutes ago put my F5 up for sale. It will help me fund a new guitar and besides I am afraid it will damage my joints if I keep fighting it. I'm keeping my little bowlback mandolin because they have a shorter scale and use much lighter strings. I get my bowl back strings from Italy. I got rid of my steel strung guitar 5 years ago because of joint pain.
Scott, I have played the LaPatrie guitars and agree with you. Some are a great value for the money but others seemed to have been slapped together as a High School shop class project. We have a local dealer here and I have not ruled them out. It is also funny that prices didn't correspond to quailty. Some of their less expensive guitars were better than the more expensive ones, in my humble opinion. "You gotta play those puppies." How true. I already take glucosamine. Like I said before, I can still play, just planning for the future.
Keith, my current guitar has a piezo pickup under the bridge so I am afraid to take it apart. Do you think it would be ok to just lift the bridge out? Would that disturb the piezo? I would hate to damage it. Maybe I will have a pro do this work.

[keith]

i am not a luthier although sometimes it seems i play one on the g.s.i. internet forum. there are two ways to remove a bridge:

#1 take it to someone who absolutely knows what he/she is doing (like a luthier or certified repair person) :D

#2 try it yourself or have someone who is unqualified do the job :evil:

#1 will get the job done correctly :D

#2 will get you firewood for the fireplace--i am sure ebony and rosewood make great long lasting burning wood and the spruce or cedar top is good to starter wood. :twisted:

of course, remove the tuning machines--you may get a few bucks selling them on ebay.

[Scott]

Rex,
Looks like you are in the St. Louis area from your info. From Keith's suggestions above about having one made for you lookup Sasha Radicic, he is a luthier in St. Louis that makes classical guitars (I don't have any experience with him though). He might be able to create the right mix for you. Also might be able to help with the firewood option from above! Stock made the Ramirez 2CE and the Cordoba Gypsy King models might fit the bill. Slimmer neck, cutaway, electronics.

The last thing, if you don't know check out the St. Louis Classical Guitar Society. Excellent performances this season with Bill Kanengiser, Antoni Goni, Jason Vieaux and a few others.
Regards,
- Scott

[Rex]

Hi Scott, looks like we are neighbors. I got my current guitar from Music Folk in Webster Groves 2 years ago. That is where I tried out the La Partrie guitars also. Who else deals with nylon in our area? I have dealt with Geoff Seitz before and trust his know how. By the way, I sold my mandolin already for the asking price! Now to spend that cash on a guitar before my wife decides we "need" something else. LOL :D

[Sandra]

By the way, I sold my mandolin already for the asking price!
Congrats, but maybe you let it go too cheap if it sold in only a day? Out of curiosity (and don't answer if you don't want), what were you asking for it?

I have a 1917 Gibson A-1 in pristine condition. Got it about 15 years ago, it was one of those rare instances where someone literally found it in grandma's attic after she died and she bought it new and it'd barely been played. :)

Anyway, I know I could probably get some decent bucks for it, but I just can't bring myself to part with it.

Then again, I have a tenor sax in the closet I haven't played in many years either. But, but, but... what if someday I *want* to play the sax again?! Or I feel the need to share with a neighbor the consciousness that sound carries as I rediscover just how badly I suck on sax ...

[Rex]

Wow, what a busy three days. Thanks for all the input everyone. My search is already over. I have been off work for the last three days and went looking today at guitars. Long story short: I bought a Rodriguez with a solid cedar top today. It sounded great to my ears and played easy with D'Addario normal composits on it. This is probably really just a good student grade guitar but I kept picking it up in between playing other guitars and it just fit me so well. It has a walnut body, something new for me, and wood binding. It is made in Spain. I kept my other guitar since it can plug in and since I didn't have much money invested in it anyway. It will be my "outdoor" guitar. I tried some "crossover" guitars, Taylor and Takamine for instance, but found the narrow neck was actually cramping and hard to navigate. Also they just don't sound as good. They seem to be heavier and sound duller. This store had high end guitars plus the La Patries and Hofners and which they said were in the same league as the Rodriguez, but the Spainish guitar just sounded so much better than the others in it's price range. Just my humble opinion and I'm no expert.
Sandra, I may have given the impression I had a Gibson F5. Actually it was just an F5 style mandolin. An Alvarez A800 to be exact. Solid woods and good sound, but no Gibson. I sold it for $550 to a fellow who has heard me play it many times in public and he loved the tone of that one. Maybe I should have asked for more, he didn't blink an eye before he said he would take it, but that seemed to be the going price of used ones on the web. He already had 4 others, mostly Flatirons, and is going to sell two of those. I spent every dime from the mandolin at the music store today, plus a little more (don't tell my wife about that :wink: ). I also picked up several sets of strings today to experiment with on both my guitars.

[Sandra]

Rex, congrats on your new guitar!
I kept picking it up in between playing other guitars and it just fit me so well.
It was calling to you. :) See, there's no one guitar that's "perfect" for everyone. By trying out various instruments you found one that suits you and I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.

As far as guilty pleasures go, it's all relative. There was a point in time where my guitar was worth over 4X my car (I have a better car now, though).

My husband recently spent $1,000 on a new paintball gun and routinely spends $50 for paintballs per outing. There are much cheaper paintball guns and much cheaper guitars. We understand each other's need to have something we consider of quality to encourage us in our hobbies. I would hope your wife understands this concept as well. :)

As long as it's not putting you into serious debt you can't afford, or preventing you from paying the rent or from putting food in your kids' mouths, I say why not live a little when it comes to something you enjoy so much. Just my 2¢ worth.

BTW, I paid $900 for that Gibson mandolin all those years ago, think the list on them when then came out in 1917 was something like $45. Like I said, it's all relative. :D

[Scott]

Rex,
Congrats on the new axe! I love getting to know the personality of a new guitar. I recently got a new Kohno so have been having fun playing it and watch it open up.

I'm guessing you got it at Music Folk. They have the best overall nylon in store offering in St. Louis. Fazio's Music not too bad. Not much in the way of concert level guitars at any in STL though. Enjoy the new guitar.
- Scott