tuning the guitar

[geoff]

I have recently taken to using an electronic tuner rather than just using a tuning fork. What puzzles me is that even after the guitar has been tuned with absolute accuracy I still find it necessary to make a slight adjustment and it always involves the third string which I find myself lowering a tiny fraction. Is this a peculiarity of my guitar or something others have observed? :?

[edwardcav]

i made a post just like this one not so long ago.

try to find it, the answers are there.

two words: EQUAL TEMPERAMENT - the best way to tune any guitar, especially cllasicals.

[nikpearson]

The main reason that the 3rd string is most susceptible to intonation problems is due to its thickness. The extra mass of the string prevents it vibrating perfectly right up to the nut & saddle. When you fret the string, therefore shortening its length, the part of the string that doesn't want to vibrate freely remains, but now represents a larger proportion of the string length. This correspondingly increases the tuning error. I hope this makes some sense.

You may find that composite strings help a little as the 3rd string is usually thinner than in a nylon set (Savarez Corum & Alliance g-strings are a good bit thinner). Tuning it slightly flat can also compensate - as you've discovered - but may sound slightly out in some positions.

I've also found that electronic tuners are very accurate but not perfect. I often find I have to make tiny adjustments by ear.

If the above doesn't resolve your problems then it really is down to your ear been sensitive to the tuning system used for guitar (equal temperament) - as Ed explained. Some people don't notice, others find it really annoying.

Lastly, some days no amount of tuning makes the guitar sound right. I've no idea of the reasons, psychoacoustics perhaps, I just put my guitar away on these occasions.

Good luck

[geoff]

edward / nick pearson
thanks. most interesting

[NGiorgio]

A great book for learning proper tuning technique is available from G.S.I. It is "Tuning the Guitar by Ear" by Gerald Klickstein. It's only about $8.00, but worth many times the price. You will never again struggle with tuning after reading this book.

[mirv]

It could be a peculiarity of your guitar as you suspect. I have this low-end classical guitar that I received with normal tension strings and never sounded right tuned until I changed the treble strings to hard tension and it then sounded more balanced. However, this maybe a peculiarity of my ear :shock:

[M. Stephenson]

You might have an intonation issue at the nut - something a luthier can check and fix.

Once I get my guitar tuned with an electronic tuner, I use a few different fingers up the neck to check the tuning and I make minor tuning adjustments as needed. I like to use the first chords from the slow part of Asturias for the fine tuning and it seems to work well for me.

[Dimitri]

Without going into a long-winded discussion about fundamentals, suffice it to say the it's not possible to tune the guitar (or piano) perfectly. It's got very little to do with the nut, action, or the size of the strings. You can tune it perfectly for a particlar scale, but that will cause other scales to sound out of tune.

There are lots of techniques to average out the notes so that they sound ok (not perfect, but close enough).

I use a particular method which I discovered (to my knowledge), and have claimed as my own and dubbed: the "Dimitri Method" of guitar tuning :)

Here's how you do it:

Play a harmonic on the 7th fret of the bass-E string. Now play a regular B note, on the 2nd fret of the A string. Match the tones.

Continue this method for all the strings except the B string.

To tune the B string, play the harmonic on the 7th fret of the G string, but play a D note (3rd fret) of the B string.

To illustrate:

E (7th fret harmonic) to A (2nd fret)
A (7th fret harmonic) to D (2nd fret)
D (7th fret harmonic) to G (2nd fret)
G (7th fret harmonic) to B (3rd fret)
B (7th fret harmonic) to E (2nd fret)

Try it, and let me know what you think.

Dimitri

[edwardcav]

Dimitri,

I still prefer equal temperement.

Here is the link for the ET instructions, thanks to Jon Carter.

http://musproshop.com/Tuning.htm

[Dimitri]

Yes, I do too! The "Dimitri method" actually DOES USE tempered (not pure) intervals.

It looks weird, I know, because you are using harmonics, but the result is an equal tempered tuning of the guitar (well, if done properly and accurately.)

Give it a try.

Cheers.
Dimitri

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I have always seen the 3rd string tuning difference in all my guitars for years,

Always assumed it was due to the fact that it was the first unwound and therefore behaved differently from wound strings. Thinking it was really a difference betwixt the top and bottom 3, and it was the 3 that was noticed because it was the first I would come too.

Have this on electric, acoustic and nylon.

This is why I did not think it was a setup issue.

Not really a problem, just something to look for.

Who knows.....
Maybe it was the same little demon that stole the thousands of guitar picks I have bought for years and can’t find one of them!

[NGiorgio]

I tried the "Dimitri method" of tuning. It works quite well. It seems to be faster than the method I was using, which is similar but requires listening for "beats". I would think that with some practice getting used to it, more accuracy may be achieved.

I always enjoy learning something new.

Thanks, Dimitri .....

[adrian]

Take a minute to read this excerpt from Gerald Klickstein's book, "Tuning the Guitar by Ear" (http://guitarsalon.com/store.php?it=BOTUNKL-02594):

Rapid, Accurate Tuning (http://www.guitarsalon.com/index.php?site_url=68)

Other articles are available in our archive here: http://www.guitarsalon.com/index.php?site_url=23

Adrian,
GSI

[guitarz11]

ditto to most of the other replys...with the exception about Equal Temperament. This has nothing to do with the question.
Stick to the tuning fork and use your ear. (This too can change.)

[ilf]

The Dimitri ay of tuning have been in use in many many years, but it still is the only relyable way to tune the guitar whatever tunings trouble the guitar suffer from.
it is based on the fact, that only the octave or prim is the only interval which is natural clean within the trempered scale we use today.

and the combination of harmonics on either the seventh or as I prefere Twelvefreet harmonics, and a stopped note either of same pitch (prim) or the octave makes up a very good tempered intonation.
if the guiatar then suffer from any kind of intonationproblem, one might need a correction here or there.

[M. Stephenson]

I do a quick tune with the electronic tuner, then do the fine tuning by playing notes on the upper part of the neck (7th fret and higher) while playing the open string of the same note or the octave above/below.

This is the only way I can get the guitar to play in tune up and down the neck and I find that it is quick and works well.