yet another Bach song........

[Jonny Hotnuts]

know that I promised to get a Torroba song done, and it is but after hearing Segovias version I decided to re-record it, mine just sounded too sterile. Here is another Bach, (Bach - Cello Suite No 3 in C, BWV 1009)

http://www.jonnyhotnuts.com/music/Bach2.mp3

My timing is all over the place but recorded it only to test my new preamp that I was told would warm the tone.

Thanks again for all comments.
I know this one needs some improvement but wanted to get another song up this week.
My site will be finished soon.

Thanks.

-JH

[Nausicaa]

Hi Jonny, nice playing. I don't think I heard a single missed note, and the timing wasn't that bad. Of course I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I digress. That new preamp sounds excellent too. I enjoy listning to your recordings, keep up the great work!

[koos]

Nice work jonny. The second recording was a lot better (the Cello Suite No 3 in C). Not only the recording quality but also your playing.
I think you should listen to a recording by Pau Casals for some inspiration on a few measures regarding the timing and trills.

How much did your recording setup cost and what does it consist of? I would very much like to record myself too.

Keep up the good work

[Todd]

This one was a tad better than the first one.

Toddk

[ykabban]

Your timing is a bit rushed at times :wink: , but your playing is very clean and I really like your tone. Would you mind telling us what guitar you recorded with?

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Thanks for all comments.
I used an 81 Ramirez 1a with pro arte extra hard tension strings.
The recording setup consists of:

M-Audio Duo (USB D/A converter, allows full bandwidth audio directly to your sound card via two mic inputs. MSRP is around 300$ and worth every penny.)

Blue Tube Stereo Preamp (warms tone, can definitely tell a difference between the two recordings. I think I paid 125$ for it (did not have the box at Guitar Center MSRP is like 160$)

Twin Oktava MK 319 mics. Paid 100$ for the pair.

I am using an audio app called SAW Studio (given to me to do home production when I worked in radio but any decent app will do.) SAW MSRP around 3500$ is very much like Cool Edit Pro 300$ with a bit more juice but I would be happy with one or the other.

And 4 mic cables (to hook the pre to the D/A converter and to the mics) they were around 125 for all.

In all I am around 600$, you could do without the tube pre and one mic just to get yourself going and then add things with money becomes available. You should be able to start hearing yourself for around 400$. And this is nothing compared to many setups I have seen.

[stevec]

Jonny

This is a much better recording and performance than the first. Really enjoyed it. I'd like to set up a home recording system down the road. What would be your system setup,either as an improvement to your currant setup,or what components would you choose if you had a $1000 budjet?

Anybody with any suggestions, please chime in.

Stevec

[edwardcav]

a mac.
8)

[stevec]

eddy...........LOL

don't have a MAC

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Steve, it is sort of funny that I never intended to set up a studio, it just sort of happened by proxy. Originally I just wanted to have a way to record bits of my playing to be able to sit back and hear myself play. Often when I am playing an intense song it takes so much focus that I can not hear what I am doing, less anything obvious. But once I was able to hear a crappy, sterile, mono recording I wanted more. Everything I purchased was purely by opportunity and things just sort of fell into place. And at this point I don’t think I would do anything different. I did toy with the idea of getting some high end mics but a friend at Guitar Center Portland assured me to get an improvement on my 100$ a pair MK 319 (reviewed very well also, did not know this until after I had got them) I would have to jump to around 1500$ a pair, and the improvement would be extremely subtle. It just did not pay off.

With the advent of the modern PC and good audio apps had reduced the recording studio of 10 years ago to a box. I was considering getting a rack mount BBE Sonic Maximizer or the Apex Aurl Exciter (both products are similar) but I found both products in VST plugins for SAW (or any program that uses VST’s many do) that work wonderfully and saved me hundreds.

For me any additional money I would spend on improving my sound would be put to better use in improving the room that I record. Adding some acoustic tiles and damping. Setting up a “RECORDING” light to keep my girlfriend from walking in while playing. And adding a space heater…..it is fricked cold in my basement!!!!!!

I recommend setting up something basic like this and then if you feel you want more you would be in a good placed to say what you would want to upgrade.

-JH

[Mikey]

Stevec,

About a month ago I purchased a DigiDesign Mbox for about $450. It is a really good, two input, audio interface and it comes with ProTools LE. The interface has built in high quality mic preamps so the recordings sound excellent and Pro Tools is an amazing program-fairly easy to use but extremely powerful. It has a bunch of plugins so external devices are not really needed. I record with a Shure SM57 mic and an Audio Technica condensor mic. The quality of the recordings is really, really good. I wouldn't ask for anything more for the type of recordings I'm doing (mainly 1 or 2 guitars). I highly reccomend the system. All in all I probably spent around $650-750. Providing you already have a fairly powerful and capable computer.

Mikey.

[stevec]

Johnny and Mikey
:)
Thanks to the both of you, this is really helpful. My motivation is much like Johnny's. Its difficult, depending on how long I've been playing/learning a piece, to both play and hear whats come off the strings. So a system that Johnny has discribed and we've heard would suit my needs just fine. At some point I would like to be able to produce a cd that I would feel comfortable enough with to give as a gift. Not having heard what Mikey's set up will produce, it would be nice to be able to compare the two systems. Although I'm sure there are a few variable's, room, acoustics, etc. it would be good to hear a comparison. Any chance of that Mikey? Just a few arpeggios or chords would probably give a sence of the out put.

thanks again guys

steve

[edwardcav]

boys:

what about mic placement and positioning? you both have two microphones.

Most common placements that i know of consist of a mic pointed at around the 12th fret area, slightly angled towards the soundboard. The other mic to be placed aimed at the bridge froma little underneath. Both mics, condensors, about a foot away, maybe less...

I am recording very soon in a studio... Soon my playing will be heard!

[cdikland]

I am curious to know why the microphone is not plugged directly into the sound card. Other than a place to plug 2 or more microphones, what role does the pre-amp play in recording? I have used a mixer for recording but never a pre-amp.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

THe D/A converter is very important. THe mic input on the back of your computer is for limited bandwidth. Meaning that if you plug a mic into it and record it will sound like you did it through a telephone. Also the soundcard does not have enough output signal to power a real mic, you might get a sound but it will be very week.

THe D/A converter allows you to plug in a mic (or two for stereo) and converts the analog mic signal to digital and inputs it directly into the soundcard giving you CD quality audio. It also has enough power to send a good signal to the mics.

A tube preamp sends even a hotter charge to the mics, allowing them to be more sensitive and warming the sound (making it sound more like life as apposed to a recording)

[Mikey]

I experimented with a lot of different mic placements. Ultimately, the best sound was when I used the condensor mic close to the guitar (about 10 inches). I directed it a little above the soundhole, angled down towards the treble strings, and pointing to the inside of the intrument. I placed the Shure SM57 farther away. This mic has a thinner sound and captures less overtones, more like a guitar sounds from the audience. When I mix I keep much more of the condensor mic signal and really only mix in a little of the area mic-gives the recording a sense of space. Keep in mind I'm recording in a tiny college dorm room so I don't have a lot of options available.

Stevec: I'd be happy to let you hear some examples but I have nowhere to post them! Any ideas?

Mikey.

[cdikland]

THe D/A converter is very important. THe mic input on the back of your computer is for limited bandwidth. Meaning that if you plug a mic into it and record it will sound like you did it through a telephone. Also the soundcard does not have enough output signal to power a real mic, you might get a sound but it will be very week.

THe D/A converter allows you to plug in a mic (or two for stereo) and converts the analog mic signal to digital and inputs it directly into the soundcard giving you CD quality audio. It also has enough power to send a good signal to the mics.



Aha... That is what that plug on my sound card is for. It also explains why my recordings sound so crappy... Oh no wait... That's just me... :D

[stevec]

Mikey

I'm sure I've seen web sites where people can upload there music. I'll see if I can run them down and get back to you. Or if you know anybody that has a web site that would let you upload to. Or I could give you my email and I could here that way. Let me know.

thx

Steve

[cdikland]

Jonny Hotnuts
I looked up the description for the D/A converter you are using and now I am confused. At the beginning of the description it says the unit is connected to the USB for recording. Near the end it says, "Just connect the S/PDIF to your Digital In of your sound card and you are ready to record"

So which is it? I looked at my sound card and all I have is a digital OUT.
What soundcard are you using?


stevec

By Monday March 8th I will have a page ready that will allow you to upload music files onto my webserver. At such time I'll post a link to the page and upload instructions. Dont expect anything flashy at first but if this turns out that others may want to use I'll expand it and clean it up.

[stevec]

Cor

That's great! Mikey, there you go.

Stevec

[Jonny Hotnuts]

cdikland:

The D/A converter that I am using (M-Audio Duo) is just plugged into my USB. It has some different ins and outs that I don’t use, there is no reason that I can see. Very likely the digital out is to send a digital signal to a soundcard that is capable. I just have my stock soundcard (I have used it on my Dell and Compaq) with identical results.

Just plug in a mic and the USB into your computer and you are sounding good. With 2 mics you can record in stereo and this is the exact setup that I used on the first song, the second sounds better with the preamp but it is not necessary

Ed: That is the mic setup I use. But I sit a bit back (about 3' away)

[cdikland]

Mikey (& stevec) RE: Uploading your files

I have developed a "quick and dirty" page for you (or anyone for that matter) to upload your audio files onto my webserver. Once I get the page refined I'll create a new thread inviting other members of this forum to use it but in the meantime...

The only requirements are as follows:

Input

You only need to provide a name, email address and upload your file. The remaining inputs are optional and are likely to change as I refine the page. Feel free to try them out though and help me test the page :D The data entered will eventually be used to create web pages that can be accessed by other who want to hear your recordings.

After completing the input and uploading the file, click the Submit button.

To upload another file, click the Clear button and repeat the above.

Technical

I only support MS IE version 5.5 or greater browsers. I suspect that if you use Netscape you will have problems.

You should have cookies enabled for your browser. (see below)

There currently is no security or login requirements for the page. To compensate for this, the page must be accessed from the link below the first time you load it. Accessing the page from any location other than this forum will redirect you to my home page. After you load the page the first time it can be accessed from any location. (unless you have disabled cookies. Then you need to access from the link below each time).


At this moment there is no page that contains links to the file you have uploaded (coming soon). For each file you upload you will receive an email that contains the URL/Link to the file. You can provide this URL (or post it here) to anyone you want to listen to the audio. Your file can be accessed from any location/webpage/website. Note that the file you uploaded has been renamed.

I think that is it. Click the "Any Questions or Suggestions?" link to send me an email.

So... here is the link you need:
http://www.ckdsolutions.com/music/upload.php