Ivory saddles and nuts..the Best.

[Walter Kiralla]

Hi, This is my first time on the forum...very nice. A couple of months ago I read a members request for information about replacing saddles and nuts.
Last month I found a person that replaces your old nut and saddle with Genuine elephant Ivory. I could not believe the difference it made with my studend Alhambra guitar. His prices are extremely reasonable and his workmanship is amazing. You can send him the nut and saddle from your guitar or you can send your guitar to him for a fitting. His name is Bob Colosi.
His email is rcolosi@tds.net
He is a very nice man and eager to help in any way he can. Do yourself a favor and contact him.
Tell him Walter sent you.
Regards, Walter

[jjoel84]

Poor elephants!!

[cdikland]

Your kidding, right???? Does he live in Canada? He does? Please send me (& the RCMP) his address. Here, only proven antique ivory is legal.
Oh he doesnt live in Canada but in the US? Fine, I'll notify Kim Bassinger.

I would soon play a tin penny whistle than play an instrument that contains animal parts that in all likelyhood were obtained through the end of a poachers barrel.

[Walter Kiralla]

The Ivory used to make the nut/saddles is Pre-Ban ivory.
As for the Canadians,. They (Canada) are currently on their yearly Seal masacre in Canada. Killing baby seals. The next time you eat a hamburger or any animal product.. consider their lives were lost to help you get a little fatter.

I was only trying to be helpful by recommending something to help other guitarists and their instruments.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, I respect that too!!
Thank you for critisizing me unfairly.

[Aaron McDonald]

you guys are great, i come from hippivlille calfornia and I hear this kind of stuff all day from various vegetarians and vegans and what not... and I don't think you know how these various parts were obtained, so I don't think it's right to bash the messenger for trying to help us guitarists. and i would sooner play a guitar made with whale skin and horse bones than a tin whistle anyday of the week. as long as the animal wasn't used soley for that purpose, but you get what I'm saying.

I would also like to add that I'm a high school kid, so when it sounds like I'm not making any sense, or just sound stupid, than please be gentle when you argue back. but otherwise i stand by my more conservative opinion. good-day.

[cdikland]

The Ivory used to make the nut/saddles is Pre-Ban ivory.
So... You would wear sealskin boots made pre 1972 US ban on seal products??

Killing baby seals. The next time you eat a hamburger or any animal product.. consider their lives were lost to help you get a little fatter.
Ewwww is that what MacDonalds is serving now? :shock:

Allow me to revise/add to the last sentence of my previous post.
I would sooner play a tin penny whistle than play an instrument equipped with seal gut strings..

[kccc1959]

Cdik...

What is your guitar made of? It's made of wood. And do you know what lives in those trees they cut down to make your precious guitar?

They are called "birds." Do you think at least one or more were killed in this process? I think the answer is obvious.

Are you the now-appointed GOD who can make a determination on which animal suffered more?

Because there are fewer Elephants than Downy Woodpeckers, does that make it right to crush the poor bird under a spruce tree just for YOUR benefit? Good Lord, what if there were a spotted owl in that tree? I don't see you in here complaining about that!

The bottom line is you have NO idea. You are uninformed and jump on one specific cause to make some sort of "doo-gooder" point without realizing the hypocracy of such a view.

I know the guy Walter was speaking about, and I too own his products. go to www.guitarsaddles.com, contact him, and get educated on exactly what you are talking about before you spout off in such an uneducated manner in the future.

And by the way, I hope you don't eat tuna. Do you REALLY know there are no dolphins in there? Right, I didn't think so.

Ciao : )
Jessica K.

[cdikland]

In the words of Frank Barone, "Holy Crap!!!" :shock:

kccc1959

The bottom line is you have NO idea. You are uninformed and jump on one specific cause to make some sort of "doo-gooder" point without realizing the hypocracy of such a view.
Do we know each other? Have we met??

Please dont tell me that they actually cut down one whole tree just for my guitar. What happened to the rest of the tree? Was it left there to rot like the flesh of a trunkless elephant? I am shocked :shock: Till you came along I didnt realize that a tree was brought down in the middle of the night just for me. Someone really ought to manage this harvesting of lumber. Maybe the government could do this and license the cutters.

I was also surprised to hear that a Downy is such a dumb bird.. Little did I realize that it will actually stay in a tree that has a chainsaw roaring down below it. I have to look at the wood of my guitar though. I thought the Downy preferred poplar and birch habitat. We really have to inform the ornithologists (that is someone who studies birds) this is not the case but in fact live in East India, honduras and prefer spruce and/or cedar.

Anyway I want to thank you for pointing out to me that the harvesting of a tree is the same as the killing of an elephant for the trunks. I guess my 30 years in the field of Natural Resource Management ( I know, that's a mouthful. Just think "Forest Ranger") didn't teach me anything.

As for the dolphins.... I must admit that is one of my weakness. I just can't get enough of it. Did you know they serve it at MacDonalds along with Seal meat???

[keith]

IN FAIRNES TO WALTER, IT APPEARS TO ME HE WAS JUST PASSING ON INFORMATION AND TO JUMP ON HIM DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ALL THAT FAIR. IF I WERE WALTER I WOULD FEEL VERY SLIGHTED--ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS HIS FIRST POST.

and by the way, i would never use ivory, or tiger penis (another object taken by killing), but if others want to do buy legal but morally objectionable products i guess we, as tolerant human beings, in a democratic society must abide by it. whether we chose to do this ourselves, or accept it, is another story.

maybe the better question one should ask oneselve is: "am i comfortable using an ivory saddle knowing the elephant was killed strictly for the tusk"? this question, in its basic form, can be posed for a lot of situations in life.

kccc1959: you said you were educated on this topic--can you share the info.

[Faya]

Boy, this post reminds me of another one about "STRINGS". I wonder what KenK would say? I personally wouldn't use it if given the choice.

[cdikland]

but if others want to do buy legal but morally objectionable products i guess we, as tolerant human beings, in a democratic society must abide by it.
Of course you are right however, we don't have to be remain quiet about it either. Once the opinion has been expressed and nothing more can be gained, it is time to move on. And that is just what I plan to do.
Back to my practice.. " What the h... What is this feather doing inside my guitar" :twisted:

[dennis]

I'm not sure why this is such a hot topic. fossilized ivory (and I think that is what a lot of luthiers use) means the creature has been dead for a very long time at least a century or two, and I've been told a lot of the fossilized ivory here in North America comes from remains of mammoths that have been dead for eaons. That's my $.02, and for the record, I think harvesting live elephants for ivory is highly objectionable and shows a pretty high disregard for the ecosytens affected in addition to the life of the elephant.

[NGiorgio]

Is it still a full moon?

What is this about a tiger penis? I must have missed something while in Florida .......

[Faya]

Hey NGiorgio, didn't you hear? They make Capos out of dried tiger penis now-a-days,(JUST KIDDING)! Dennis is right about the fossilized ivory.
LATER.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I have a great recipe for Dolphin and Elephant if anyone is interested.
Great on the grill!
:lol:

[kccc1959]

CD..
I do not know if we have met, although I'm sure we will either laugh about this over a beer one day, or engage in a gunfight.

I think you're missing my point. I understand that animals that reside in trees are accidental victims whilst Dumbo took a bullet just for his tusks. The point is things get killed each and every day for too many things to list in here. If you've ever eaten a chicken, fish or cow, they were killed solely for a purpose. Consumption
If the woodpecker should have been smart enough to flee upon hearing the saw, the elephant should have ducked. All kidding aside, the point is...focusing on ONE creature just seems a bit biased. There are volumes of innocent victims and animals because of human consumption. And personally from what Bob C. has told me and material I have read, I'm satisfied that the present condition of poaching has been contained to the point where I don't feel bad at all for using a piece of ivory that was imported 30 years ago.

I know Bob gets liberal B.S. email at his saddle business about the ivory usage occasionally. Where are the save the cows emails for Gods sake?

Keith, I never said I was officially educated on the subject. I am just looking at it from an objective point of view. What I did say was if you want an "everything you always wanted to know" about elephant harvesting, call Bob at the website I gave you. He is very well-informed on the subject and has been dealing with the material and many larger scale ivory vendors for some time.

Im sorry to be a hissy old woman.

And I will not put a tiger penis in my guitar, or anywhere else important for that matter.

ciao
Jess

[jjoel84]

sorry for my statement I was merely being humerous (i so i thought) But I would put a tiger penis on my guitar if it made me play better.


And I'm not canadian, either

[stevec]

Jonny....................I want that recipe. :lol:

Stevec

[keith]

i probably should explain the tiger thing (no pun intended). in my opinion, the tiger has to be one of the most supreme animals on this earth. sadly, they have been hunted to near extintion because it is believed in many cultures that the penis of the tiger made in soup or a supplement will confer increased physical powers/prowess to those who consume it.

the point of the message was the destruction of an animal just for a specific organ.

and i think given the anatomy and physiology of the mr. johnsons of the animal world, they would make very lousy capos if the animal is dead, and if it is alive, i think it would damn difficult to play (especially if it was a tiger).

fossilize ivory--gee, why did not someone say this is the early posts. a lot of fighting could have been prevented as well as tiger johnsons now being associated with my name. :)

[NGiorgio]

Thanks for clearing that up. I would assume that the increased power/prowess has nothing to do with music. Am I correct?

[keith]

music--probably not. activities needing vim and vigor--yes.

hey nick--are you still in florida or back in new york?

[Faya]

I agree with you Keith about animals being killed just for one part of their body. I would have said something earlier about fossilized ivory, but I just found out myself. The capo thing was just a JOKE.

LATER.

[cdikland]

fossilize ivory--gee, why did not someone say this is the early posts. a lot of fighting could have been prevented as well as tiger johnsons now being associated with my name. :)
That should say "fossilize WALRUS ivory"


From Custom Saddles Web site (including formatting edits by myself)
ELEPHANT IVORY SADDLES
Elephant Ivory is probably the most sought after material for guitar saddles. It is actually less dense than bone, although far less porous which give it the feel that it is harder. Elephant ivory has long been the “standard” for handmade guitars and the material of choice for saddles, nuts and bridge pins made by luthiers who specialize in high-end guitar manufacturing. Its consistency from piece to piece is spectacular. It maintains the ability to polish like glass and has a beautiful off-white appearance with an elegant grain structure. Elephant Ivory provides a more subtle high end and does not give the same “aggressive” overtones as the Bone or Walrus. The elephant provides exceptional clarity, and offers the best string-to-string “balance” of all the materials.

FOSSILIZED WALRUS IVORY SADDLES
Fossilized walrus ivory (FWI) became increasing popular due to the controversy of the use of elephant ivory, even after elephant ivory usage became more popular after 1990. FWI is harvested from the fossilized remains of LONG dead walrus’ in northern Canada and Alaska. No modern animals are harmed to procure this material. The fact that FWI is more expensive than elephant ivory is due only to the fact that it is less abundant. Unlike elephant ivory, the entire walrus tusk can be used, as the pulp pf the tusk, which is a much softer material in the case of an elephant, becomes extremely dense when fossilized in walrus ivory.

[Faya]

Good Post cdikland, Thanks!

LATER.

[NGiorgio]

Yes Keith, I am in cold, damp, wet NY. Back for Easter. Still have to look for "no more wraps" polish.

Speaking of capos or cejillas, I have not been able to find those rubber sheets in black, only the red color at my local hardware store. Where did you find them, was it Home Depot?

Hmmm ... wonder if that supplement is available at GNC .......

[keith]

faya: cool picture and cool last name--i always was a fan of manuel. are you related to manuel?

i knew you were joking about the cejilla--i actually found it funny that someone who think it would be a cejilla--hence my quip.

nick--you have my e-mail address. e-mail me your address and i will send you a bottle. as to the black gasket material--it is rare--the brick red is the common color. i try to avoid the home depot and support local merchants as much as possible. they all seem to have the red ones. i just use a magic marker to color the edges--the surface that lays on the fret board remains red (cannot see it anyway).

cdikland: thanks for the update. knowing that the material is fossilized and not killed by humans for only the tusk--is good to hear. and it is really refreshing that you took the time to investigate-and it seems maybe changed course- when you were a principal opponent--sure wish mr. bush could do that.

walter: are you still with us?

it is good to hear there are a lot of folks out there cognizant of these issues. now, if we can get them damn s.u.v.'s off the road......oops, another jug of gas for the fire?????

[cdikland]

now, if we can get them damn s.u.v.'s off the road......oops, another jug of gas for the fire?????
What's an S.U.V??? Can you shoot it???? :D

Hey, anyone want to use fossilized Walrus ivory. More power to them. Considering where a signinicant amount comes from how could I object. :wink:

Well time to hook up the huskies to the sled. Gotta go trade my furs and get my monthly supplies of seal and dolphin meat at the Bay Trading Post. Cause (jjoel84) I AM CANADIAN!!! :P

[keith]

hey cdikland--if you are canadian aren't you suppose to say "eh" after each sentence? :wink:

[cdikland]

hey cdikland--if you are canadian aren't you suppose to say "eh" after each sentence? :wink:
Only after a case of beers. Preferably Molson Canadian, eh.

[Walter Kiralla]

faya: cool picture and cool last name--i always was a fan of manuel. are you related to manuel?

i knew you were joking about the cejilla--i actually found it funny that someone who think it would be a cejilla--hence my quip.

nick--you have my e-mail address. e-mail me your address and i will send you a bottle. as to the black gasket material--it is rare--the brick red is the common color. i try to avoid the home depot and support local merchants as much as possible. they all seem to have the red ones. i just use a magic marker to color the edges--the surface that lays on the fret board remains red (cannot see it anyway).

cdikland: thanks for the update. knowing that the material is fossilized and not killed by humans for only the tusk--is good to hear. and it is really refreshing that you took the time to investigate-and it seems maybe changed course- when you were a principal opponent--sure wish mr. bush could do that.

walter: are you still with us?

it is good to hear there are a lot of folks out there cognizant of these issues. now, if we can get them damn s.u.v.'s off the road......oops, another jug of gas for the fire?????

[NGiorgio]

Walter,

Please start another thread. This has been very entertaining.

We all must keep a sense of humor here .......

[sorin popovici]

Man ....what did i miss!!! :D

Until a couple of minutes ago, I didnt knew what "saddles" means so that's why I never read this thread before.


<JOKE>

So the question is : smoother Tarrega or Elephants?
Tough one.......
My answer:
How long does an elephant live ( tired to do google)? Cause i can wait ....meanwhile I'll work on my tremolo for "Recuerdos ..."

</JOKE>

Sorry for the joke ....we do not have that many problems with elephants in Romania...
(that was another JOKE)

<JOKE> IN fact we do not have elephants at all..... :?: I wonder why ?
:idea:
Maybe my government has been secretly killing elephants for ivory....so thats why I dont see elephants on the streets running wild?

I'll have to investigate this.....

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
somewhere
</JOKE>

[Aaron McDonald]

this is possibly the funniest discussion I've heard. c dik... i don't know what kind of restraunts they have in canada but in the u.s. we have mcdonalds, not macdonalds. just clearing up the little misunderstanding, eh. 8)
and my sense of humor is hard to understand, especially when you can't hear my voice, so don't actually be offended. i'm just jok'n around. :wink:

[cdikland]

Aaron McDonald

Dont be absurd.... You really think that I would suggest that McDonalds (a.k.a. McYuks) would server seal and dolphin meat? :x Now as for the MacDonalds (a subsidiary of Ukillwegrill Inc) chain, well that is another story....

"Only available in Canada", you say? Pity...


:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[et041053]

I just love this forum!!! Its gets better each day!!!

..ivory for the saddles ...wood for the guitar ...ban all those and no more Julian Bream..John Williams no more flamenco , no more dancing and no more guitar for u, and no more food for the luthiers ..classic example of chain reaction 8)

[Pepe Vergara]

Much of the ivory sold around is not ivory. Do not be taken. A good cow bone iw perfect for saddle and nut. I prefer cow bone. I turned some of the old lamps and decoration knives I had made of ivory into nuts. THe difference with a good cow bone was minimum.