Who can really tune up the guitar?

[Pepe Vergara]

Yesterday, I had a very unique experience. I was playing a new guitar by the phone to a customer before shipping it. The customer told me that the guitar was not in tune, that one of the middle strings was sharp and the other flat. I stopped, got my electronic tuner, and yes. He was right. All the other four strings were on the mark. Those two were just a little off. He is musician and plays jazz and blues with all kind of guitars. He is going to use this guitar for fingerpicking. I was really impressed.

My question is: how many of you can do what my customer did? Can you tune the guitar without electronic devices, or maybe just with the tunning fork? If yes, how did you learn that?

[knucklebrain1970]

Pepe, I can do that. I actually can not stand electronic tuners. I do have one, but use it only as a reference point for the A string. I use to do that anyhow, now I just use my ear and can tune the A string by ear to a perfect 440 every time. I don't know if that is considered perfect pitch or not :roll:

Anyhow when I play with other people, 9 times out of 10 their instruments are so out of tune that for me it's the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard. As I said in another post, they'll tune and tune with the electronic device and I'll grab the guitar and tune it in 30 seconds. I guess I have to up the caliber of the musicians I play with ha? :lol:

Tuners are ok, but you have to always slightly compensate for the G and B strings. Tuners will never get those 100% , well, perhaps they will get the note 100% but when you play a chord, it will be off, say an Am chord or D chord. I always have to tweak the G and B strings. I don't understand why this is though. Perhaps some Rocket Scientist on sound could chime in and give us a complicated mathematical explanation why this is so.

Kevin

[dap22]

Hey Pepe,
this is something you need to train your ears to do, to recognize certain pitches. With practice, many people have acquired perfect pitch, in which case, they can pretty much just hear a note and recognize what it is without having to compare it to a piano or other instrument. Others have acquired relative pitch. These can be acquired over time with a lot of practice. There is an advertisement for lessons on how to acquire perfect pitch in most guitar magazines, I have not purchased these, but you might want to look into them.

As far as tuning a guitar by ear, this is also something that requires much practice. In a masterclass with Richard Robinson, he discussed the importance of practicing tuning. First practice tuning with the machine, train you ear to recognize the pitch intervals between each string. For example, you should know that from the G to the B string is an interval of a major third, B string to the E string is a perfect fourth, etc...
Recognize the different pitches and intervals, use harmonics to compare tuning...example, compare you fifth fret harmonic on your low E string (6th string) to the high E string (1st string.) The pitches should be the same, or you should understand that from the low E string to the high E string is a interval of two octaves, etc.
Compare your twelfth fret harmonic on the A string, to a the second fret on the G string (another A), your open A string is one octave lover than the second fret on the G string...compare the octaves, etc.
There are many different tricks and techniques in tuning. You need to find what works best for you.
I compare the fifth fret harmonic on the low E string with the seventh fret harmonic of the A string...if there is a 'beat' in the sound (put a guitar slightly out of tune and you should be able to understand what I mean by the beats...its kind of like a wave in the sound) then they are out of tune. Relatively, the faster beat/wave means that the string you are comparing it with is sharp, and the slower beat/wave means the string you are comparing it with is flat.
There are tons of ways to tune a guitar and recognize pitches.
It may sound funny...but practice tuning. Practice listening to open strings and comparing the pitch difference between them. In time, you will have trained your ears to recognize pitches.
I hope some of this helped!
Good luck,

Doug.

[Pepe Vergara]

Libre?

[Faya]

Electronic tuners!???????? :shock: :shock: :lol:
Boy am i old.

Peace
:mrgreen:

[Pepe Vergara]

:mrgreen:

What is that? I mean the green thing?

[Faya]

Hey Pepe,
It's Senor Green!!!!
Found under the "View more Emoticons" .

Later
:mrgreen:

[Jubilee Valence]

Pepe,here's some from couple days ago/similar topic:arrow: http://forum.guitarsalon.com/viewtopic.php?p=13538&highlight=#13538....yeah, I got the sensitive ear too!..good thing it's wearing out!(estoy viejo..)--Jubi

[brian richardson]

pepe!!
i can nail an 'a' pretty much all the time and tune from there.
i can't however do what your customer and say the g is # or flat. too many
years of rock n roll screaming may be to blame. then again, maybe since i can nail the 'a', i could learn to do it with other notes. never thought about it like that. bet your customer will be thrilled with the new guitar :D !!

jubi baby!!! it's hangin' low and lazy :twisted:

faya-how's the hand healing?? 8)

off for some fun and games-maybe even a bit of yodelling :roll:

[knucklebrain1970]

Hey Pepe, you holding out on the guitar porn on us? :cry:
Post that stuff up here bub. Le see ya work man? Seriously.

Kevin

[Jubilee Valence]

Tres equis aqui? Chal-e...gang's all here.. :twisted: ever hit that REAL high one--crackin' der steins? gotta stay home & work on...chops..(neighbor is quarter mile away, his wife yodels back)..need to fix that "beat" porn tho'...the waves of two identical notes will match & on daniel711's oscilloscope, will come together & join as one.(not sure of wave ecstacy state/check with JPL monday..) If one pitch begins to drop, its shape will begin to drop ie in a flacid manner, thereby clashing with the still raging progress of the other partner note. This flacid dropping can be seen on the screen & heard as a slow moaning & if not restored quickly, will generate faster & faster screams as the former partner notes are becoming farther &farther apart in their rhythm. It's been said that the stable note pulsating loudly through it's medium, has been known to devour(wolf notes:see Ramirez) or otherwise cancel out the offending slackard in it's search for "harmony"

[knucklebrain1970]

Sounds like someone needs to go visit the mens room.

Man I love powertab.

Kevin

[brian richardson]

:twisted: if not under copyright and with your kind permission, "offending slackard" will find it's way as a brilliant track on the yet to be released, soon
to be coveted, band yet to be formed, but always cutting edge brain child of yours truly. stopping in for supplies and then out for some afterburning.
steins raised in your direction. prost!! :twisted:

[Faya]

Hey brian, what's up man?? The hand is alot better. Thanks!! still hurts a little when i play though. But that ain't gonna' stop me.

Jubi my man!!! You gotta start sellin' those things!!! "Offending Slackard" Man......, that's another good one! :lol:

Time to start practicing my Yodelling.

Peace
:mrgreen:

[Jubilee Valence]

The framework of the thread...thanks to knucklehead1970...Nacio,start w/ "the sound of music", in the puppet show(with the goats...&shepherd boy & girl-- rated G)--you'll have that mastered by this weekend--no?..ooops that's another thread...those CLASSICAL yodels-alpine? :twisted: are the best place to begin..lots of octave jumping w/ falsetto-- the Ported Seven will carry it perfectly!!!

[Pepe Vergara]

I will. Perf is going to record with my guitar, then I will post the sound and video if any. Pics as soon as I get my camera working again.

[Pepe Vergara]

you holding out on the guitar porn on us? :cry:

Kevin

Old fashion and English as second language. I do not understand, can you translate 4 me?

[Jubilee Valence]

you holding out on the guitar porn on us? :cry:

Kevin

Old fashion and English as second language. I do not understand, can you translate 4 me? I know this sounds crazy,but.....Pepe.....I DON'T HAVE A CLUE EITHER!!!!????????

[fernsemer]

Wow.....And people get upset with me when I take a thread in a different
direction!.....It seems I I've got nothing on you guys!

[nicco812]

After 30+ years of playing, I can too easily hear a string out of tune. It really drives me crazy when a other guitarists seem unaware they are playing an instrument out of tune. This is not limited, however, to amateur players. I bought a cd by Xuefei Yang in which she plays Roland Dyen's Saudade. It's a great piece of music and she really nails it but her guitar's 6th string (E dropped down to D) is too sharp and it almost makes me grind my teeth. I can also tell if a piano is out of tune, too. I can't tell if it's a gift or a curse.

[nebula_34]

In tune and out of tune to the western ear are based on equal temperment - aka each note is the same distance apart (in terms of wavelengths/second or Hertz). The natural scale without this equal tempermant is actually different than what we are used to - if you listen to certain musics from the world (Javanese for example) you can hear the difference. So for a western instrument - I can hear fairly well how in tune something is when listening to guitars and other intruments, but dont have perfect pitch (which is when you can hear a random note and distinguish it - aka - truck horn sounds outside and the band conductor says "hey 1st trombonists - play a low Gb - and it sounds just like the truck horn [one of my conductors could do that - it was pretty cool!]) NEway, it can definatly be a blessing or curse (i'm glad I dont have perfect pitch - my wife does and she can hear when a note is off pitch at any time! I dont care so much as long as all of them are off pitch to the same degree). These skills can definatly be developed at home or anywhere really, with proper technique. I'm going to shut up now though :) But I agree with you Nicco - it can be aggrivating when other guitarists arent tuned to mean temperment properly!

[Pepe Vergara]

In tune and out of tune to the western ear are based on equal temperment - aka each note is the same distance apart (in terms of wavelengths/second or Hertz). The natural scale without this equal tempermant is actually different than what we are used to - if you listen to certain musics from the world (Javanese for example) you can hear the difference.

The thoery of this is well known, and I understand that guitars will never be in tune completely because we have divided it in frets. What about having a fretless guitar? Would it work to get a perfect tuning?

[Faya]

Hey Pepe,
You build one and i'll test it for you. :D

:mrgreen:

[Jubilee Valence]

Well sir, over 'ta the hootenannies,they use this'ere flat job & play it wif' a "cro-mee-um" bar; hell, I couldn't do much wif' it cuz'-- the danged frets was gone!! & them there pedals,...like a pi-anno..! rattle, hiss.. :P ...Sorry guys, I think I need a beer..

[knucklebrain1970]

Ok, what I meant was to post pics of the guitar Pepe. On the mountain bike forums I am part of, when someone builds a new bike, they post pictures of it and we refer to it as bicycle porn, hence the term guitar porn. Comprendo?

Kevin

[Jubilee Valence]

Ok, what I meant was to post pics of the guitar Pepe. On the mountain bike forums I am part of, when someone builds a new bike, they post pictures of it and we refer to it as bicycle porn, hence the term guitar porn. Comprendo?

Kevin :shock: pssstt: cheque su espanol,ese!

[Jubilee Valence]

:twisted: if not under copyright and with your kind permission, "offending slackard" will find it's way as a brilliant track on the yet to be released, soon
to be coveted, band yet to be formed, but always cutting edge brain child of yours truly. stopping in for supplies and then out for some afterburning.
steins raised in your direction. prost!! :twisted: Thank you evil twin! And to you dear Faya--The man with the Ported Seven--Blessings! Of course brother members, although it is certain that our hosts will indeed be indemnified from any liabilities in our presentation of theoretical wave dynamics, it may be in the better interests of the membership at large to relegate all disbursements and interests thereof to our Honoured fellows who ,in their hallowed duties,represent and adjudge us, each and every one.

[brian richardson]

:twisted: when you're right you're right. :twisted:

morning already? i can't shake the flu :x !! goodnight

[Jubilee Valence]

:twisted: when you're right you're right. :twisted:

morning already? i can't shake the flu :x !! goodnight :twisted:NAHH!!! I'm just stallin' 'til youse guy's show up see? Now on the video, how 'bout that blonde from the recital?... :twisted:

[brian richardson]

was that with sister in tow? we'll need a guitar, just to make it legit.
more loft and less cows. i'm in! 8)

[Jubilee Valence]

the one for MTV, not the amateur :oops:web video!! ...I thought we're done w/ cows :( when we hit it big, I thought ,no more BIG... 8)

[brian richardson]

:twisted: we can work out these kinks at the castle in bavaria.
hate to sign off but, i've a
103.2 temp and rising, even my fingernails hurt. stuck my head in the sink full of ice and water. bad idea.
gonna search the med. closet and off to la la land :lol:
two more days of this and then drastic measures. tequilla(that knocks everything on the head) :twisted: