String Tension

[BigMac5]

I been using D'addario Pro Arte Composites extra hard tension for about seven months now. I am considering going to a lower tension strings. I like the feel and sound of the extra hard tension strings. I have big heavy hands and feel this tension is best for me, maybe. The problem is that my I find playing songs with a lot of barring difficult. I know this is normal for beginners. I am contemplating going o normal tension strings until my hand strength and barring technique gets better.


What I really want to know is what string tension do all the advanced and experienced players in the forum use?

[Mikey]

I use hard tension strings. I really think extra-hard tension strings are unecessary. That is, I think the feel and sound of hard tension strings will suit just fine. Most players of a certain caliber use high tension. If you are, as you said, a heavy handed player, medium or low strings will feel and sound like noodles. I play heavy handed and can't stand medium tension, and below, strings. But, hard tension is strong enough.

Hope this helps,

Mikey

[Travis_Warner]

I've experimented with the extra hard tension, and fell in love with tone. However, I have experienced the same problem as you, i have trouble with barre chords, especially when I switch from one barre chord to another. Since then, I have moved down to Pro Arte mediums, and because of my somewhat small hands, I like these strings becuase they are easy on my fingers. However, I plan on trying hard tension strings when these wear out

[jeremy]

Most of the good players I know use normal or low tension strings. Occassionally one will use high tension, but this is unusual. Generally their attitude is that if you are doing something for long periods of time, why make it harder. Also with the lower tension strings, it is easier to get more colour variations in the sound, especially the trebles.

Sadly for many players, they cannot afford the very expensive instruments that many of these players use, and less expensive instruments often respond well to higher tension strings.

If you are just learning, then go back to normal tension strings. Even Carbon style strings are a bit harder than the normal nylon. When you feel your technique has improved, try a set of high tension again and see what you think. For now, be kind to your fingers and hands.
________
BMW R1200C (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/BMW_R1200C)

[Shroomy726]

See, I think it should be the other way around. If you are just starting on flamenco then it is better to start with high tension so that your fingers get nice calluses and get stronger. Then, when you are ready, you can change to medium or low and you will notice a huge difference. Me, personally, i have never tried high tension, but i used to play acoustic guitar, and when i played acoustic for a while and then went to play my electric guitar, it seemed so easy to play. I am not a professional or anything, but I just bought a pair of high tension strings and a medium pair. I have been using medium ever since I started flamenco a few months back and even though I like it, I decided to try high tension because I think it will help me in getting a better sound and a stronger hand grip.
If you are just just starting guitar overall then DONT try high tension because it will kill your fingers. If you have some experience then i say go for the high pair

[Zak]

I think regular tension strings are the way to go. In my experience, they are more resonant, sweeter, and they feel better.

Mikey: "Most players of a certain caliber use high tension." I haven't heard this...you saing I'm a lousy player?! :D

[Jubilee Valence]

Most of the good players I know use normal or low tension strings. Occassionally one will use high tension, but this is unusual. Generally their attitude is that if you are doing something for long periods of time, why make it harder. Also with the lower tension strings, it is easier to get more colour variations in the sound, especially the trebles.

Sadly for many players, they cannot afford the very expensive instruments that many of these players use, and less expensive instruments often respond well to higher tension strings.

If you are just learning, then go back to normal tension strings. Even Carbon style strings are a bit harder than the normal nylon. When you feel your technique has improved, try a set of high tension again and see what you think. For now, be kind to your fingers and hands.Thank you!!...long day...long story...but "this" is "the day" for me to agonize over this one.......aaahh, I think I'll save ya' from the "standard Jubi-gram"...Thanks again...WAIT!....recent acquisition--R1...now "this" particular one,from amongst the "throngs" out of Raimundo,is one awesome "machine"....came w/ "heavys"...at low & med. volumes/intensity,the "sound" is just unbelievable--really!...but at "full power"...I can't "hear" it (neighbors-- 1/2 mile across remote desert--nightime--DO!--from front steps) but "experience" it, ya' know mate? I've already conceded to myself,I've got to lose the "cables" & go back to anything else; it's a "nails" issue....pro apllied acryllic tips & fill can withstand my "regular" attack; but full power w/ "cables" on that "air pumping,sonic engine" -- 1 "horse"(..mule...)power,---brother, I'm beginning to believe nothing could take that,and for those who've "known me" a while,---that's without GOLPES !!!!!...oh, almost forgot,been at it ...off 'n' on..35yrs?....former rock'er..and I'm pretty 'abusive' on a flat top...anyways, Thanks again! ..always preferred lights on all my "rigs"...back to my "roots" eh? Zakster--SAME Bro';TRAV! how high's the action?...the SMARTEST! BEST! advice I believe I've ever heard---in 49 yrs! is--"For now,be kind to your fingers & hands."(&nails!) and that's from a guy who can do everything--"standin' on his head!" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[BigMac5]

Thank you!!...long day...long story...but "this" is "the day" for me to agonize over this one.......aaahh, I think I'll save ya' from the "standard Jubi-gram"...Thanks again...WAIT!....recent acquisition--R1...now "this" particular one,from amongst the "throngs" out of Raimundo,is one awesome "machine"....came w/ "heavys"...at low & med. volumes/intensity,the "sound" is just unbelievable--really!...but at "full power"...I can't "hear" it (neighbors-- 1/2 mile across remote desert--nightime--DO!--from front steps) but "experience" it, ya' know mate? I've already conceded to myself,I've got to lose the "cables" & go back to anything else; it's a "nails" issue....pro apllied acryllic tips & fill can withstand my "regular" attack; but full power w/ "cables" on that "air pumping,sonic engine" -- 1 "horse"(..mule...)power,---brother, I'm beginning to believe nothing could take that,and for those who've "known me" a while,---that's without GOLPES !!!!!...oh, almost forgot,been at it ...off 'n' on..35yrs?....former rock'er..and I'm pretty 'abusive' on a flat top...anyways, Thanks again! ..always preferred lights on all my "rigs"...back to my "roots" eh? Zakster--SAME Bro';TRAV! how high's the action?...the SMARTEST! BEST! advice I believe I've ever heard---in 49 yrs! is--"For now,be kind to your fingers & hands."(&nails!) and that's from a guy who can do everything--"standin' on his head!" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
:?: What?

[JoeAlders]

Everybody is talking about "low tension", " medium tension" or "high tension" as if one exactly knows what is meant by these terms. I personally have only a vague idea what these terms mean.
Of course a "high tension" string, brought to a certain pitch, will produce more tension between bridge and nut (Pepe, I hope I did use the right terminology because in the English language I am not quite familiar with “guitar” expressions) than a "low tension" string will do having that same pitch (because they are thicker I think?). But what about the difference in amplitude when plucking those two different tension strings? I think that a "high tension" string, when plucked with a certain energy, will produce less amplitude than the "low tension" one.
If this is so, then will "high tension" strings also produce less "buzz" on the frets ( on a guitar having the same string action) when plucked hard? Or, produce lesser noticeable artifacts (buzz) contacting the fingertip later ( due to a lower amplitude), when the string is finally brought to rest after plucking the adjacent string above, using a rest stroke?
Joe.

[daniel711]

Absolutely, you got it right... A higher tension string will have a lower amplitude, thus it will less likely cause a buzz, and less likely influence adjacent strings. For clarity - 'amplitude' is the distance that the string displaces when it vibrates....

[deAlmeida]

first of all... the daddario extra hard tension set is REALLY high tension. I tried em...they're really high tension... almost makes me scared to use them on a guitar! they just feel like they're wound a little too tight! anyways, how is the action on your guitar setup? if the action isn't very low, that will hinder your playing a lot, especially with barre chords. besides that, yes you will find the lower tension strings easier to fret, BUT... consider this: you are currently using THE THICKEST STRINGS on the face of the planet! ok that might be an exaggeration. nonetheless, the daddario pro arte line are some thick strings, and I'm pretty sure the extra hard set is the thickest of the thick.

if you switch to strings that are not as thick (Luthier concert dark silver 35 set), you will be able to keep the hard tension you love and have thinner (and easier) strings to fret. plus I think these strings sound 100 times better than the daddarios. they are just hard tension. not extra hard. but the extra hard tension is overkill I think

[deAlmeida]

..

[BigMac5]

The action on my guitar is very low. I am goint to try a set of hard tensions se how it goes.

D'Addario Pro Arte Composite extra hard strings

Diameter Tension
inches mm lbs kg
E 0.029 0.737 16.4 7.44

B 0.0333 0.846 12.5 5.67

G 0.0416 1.057 12.9 5.85

GC 0.038 0.97 13.7 6.21

D 0.030 0.76 16.8 7.62

A 0.036 0.91 16.6 7.53

E 0.047 1.19 16.8 7.62

[Jubilee Valence]

Thank you!!...long day...long story...but "this" is "the day" for me to agonize over this one.......aaahh, I think I'll save ya' from the "standard Jubi-gram"...Thanks again...WAIT!....recent acquisition--R1...now "this" particular one,from amongst the "throngs" out of Raimundo,is one awesome "machine"....came w/ "heavys"...at low & med. volumes/intensity,the "sound" is just unbelievable--really!...but at "full power"...I can't "hear" it (neighbors-- 1/2 mile across remote desert--nightime--DO!--from front steps) but "experience" it, ya' know mate? I've already conceded to myself,I've got to lose the "cables" & go back to anything else; it's a "nails" issue....pro apllied acryllic tips & fill can withstand my "regular" attack; but full power w/ "cables" on that "air pumping,sonic engine" -- 1 "horse"(..mule...)power,---brother, I'm beginning to believe nothing could take that,and for those who've "known me" a while,---that's without GOLPES !!!!!...oh, almost forgot,been at it ...off 'n' on..35yrs?....former rock'er..and I'm pretty 'abusive' on a flat top...anyways, Thanks again! ..always preferred lights on all my "rigs"...back to my "roots" eh? Zakster--SAME Bro';TRAV! how high's the action?...the SMARTEST! BEST! advice I believe I've ever heard---in 49 yrs! is--"For now,be kind to your fingers & hands."(&nails!) and that's from a guy who can do everything--"standin' on his head!" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
:?: What?...as I hi-jacked ya'....I should've E-mailed Jeremy instead of using the Quote option here on the discussion forum,which would,in theory anyway, open both replys and their relationship to your or any other member or guests situation to possible comment,critique,or perusal or not...but now!...light at the end of the tunnel....I too have big hands but maybe small brain!...I've been grinding up my nails on "high tensions" --question:By using the opposite idea?-- regarding force applied?ie- "too much/back off?" or ..."Stay off the steps,stupe!".........** "moose & squirrel" philosophy...by, JV...stay "tuned"...Dan-o!..?re: ampl/freq parameters ie wave height' signature-- related to force applied(stringed instr only)--termed?

[daniel711]

Yeah Jubee - If I undersatnd your question (if you were asking one at all!)...... the 'wave height' aka 'amplitude' is related to the force applied. I think the post I responded to asked whether the 'amplitude' of a high tension string would be lower that that of low/medium tension string, assuming the SAME force applied. And yes, it would..........

[Pepe Vergara]

I like to use low tension strings for flamenco guitars and regular or medium tension string for classical. The new "educated wave of guitar players" want the maximum volume, with the less effort plucking the strings. Normally, it does not work that way. However, luthiers are experimenting with thinner tops, and even double-tops, etc. My personal opinion is that when you try to get volume in a guitar, you end up giving up something else (normally quality of tone). Nowdays, with electric amplifiers of great quality, the distorsion can be reduced to a minimum, so I see no reason why classical concertists would not favor quality of sound over volume and use amplification with a nice sounding gutiar. The success of the Ramirez guitar is based in part to the high volume it projects. Of course, everyone knows about the high action of the Ramirez guitars. That is the reason that almost every owner has it adjusted by a luthier or sold later on.

Any string (low-, medimum- or hard- tension) will produce the same tone (note) tuned for. However, they will do at different tensions. Lower tension strings put less tension on the bridge, higher-tension strings will put more. I personally believe this would not affect a well-glued bridge, but it will have other effects: If the saddle is too high, the torque o or momentum around the front edge of the bridge will be higher. This could produce a concavity in front of the bridge or a convexity below the bridge. THen, the action will go higher (again). The extra tension can also increase the potential for neck bending. Althought I believe mahogany necks do not require reinforcement, with the extra-high carbon, etc, strings, I am starting to worry about it.

[daniel711]

I am not a luthier, but the difference in tension between low and extra-high is a few lbs. at most. I really don't think that the structural integrity of the guitar is in question at all. I use x-high tension basses and carbon trebles. As far as the basses, it is more of a tactile issue than anything else. I like the 'feel' of tighter strings. It helps my technique. And the carbon trebles really bring focus to a cedar top. The bottom line: Use the strings that feel and sound the best to you - the guitar will be fine.

[Pepe Vergara]

I am not a luthier, but the difference in tension between low and extra-high is a few lbs. at most. I really don't think that the structural integrity of the guitar is in question at all.

Good 4U!

[JoeAlders]

“Everyone knows about the high action of the Ramirez guitars”
I can confirm this statement of Pepe. I am playing on a Ramirez 1a (1979) and before I got this Ramirez, I played on an Aria AC50 (build in 1976). In the beginning I had great difficulty playing a Barree on the Ramirez due to the higher action with respect to the Aria so I switched to low tension strings. But then I got those nasty buzzes I was talking about earlier in this discussion thread. At that time, I thought that it was caused by a higher amplitude (Oh my God! Jubilee Valence will go mad again when reading this word) of those strings. When I switched back to medium tension again, those noises disappeared. I had to practice a lot to overcome the problems of playing a proper Barree on my Ramirez but I never again switched to low tension strings.
Joe.

[Jubilee Valence]

Yeah Jubee - If I undersatnd your question (if you were asking one at all!)...... the 'wave height' aka 'amplitude' is related to the force applied. I think the post I responded to asked whether the 'amplitude' of a high tension string would be lower that that of low/medium tension string, assuming the SAME force applied. And yes, it would.......... :idea: ...OK..got that part..that's kinda why I think of 'em more as "cables"(taught; high tension at pitch) :wink: ...the actual question-as framed during that mind set**...hhhmmnn...you know guys,it's just as hard for me sometimes,to understand -me, :oops: ..lessee..yeah,here we go! :arrow: :?: --Is there a "term"....to describe the relationship(s) of the amplitude(s) of any given pitch,to the factor(s) that cause(s) the 'change(s)'....as some "tones" are going to come from electronic signals;some from physical objects,a perhaps infinite expression(?)-as in considering w/ just 1 object(string)& it's possible variations(gauges/tensions & materials-if applicable-...,etc.),hence,a term or name describing the phenomona & further(?), in relating to the 'source' criteria...ie-- tryin' the easy way to learn lab jargon/ language mechanics in this subject w/out putting myself through the educational system(again..)AND you good folks through "level 101 Jubi-grams"..uh, make that "remedial..."--Jubi,the 'GED kid'.....JoeAlders,it's common knowledge around here that I'm "quite mad"!...good thing that I'm no "scientist" eh,?...Would I be the "Mad Scientist"...?, or "Wave Heights,...Amplitude Surfer..."(OK...lame "moose & squirrel"...)...By the way Joe-can your 1A's action be adjusted to a more "ergonomically" comfortable or efficient,- height :?: 8) p.s**....I can't remember what I was smokin',who gave it to me or ....How long was I out?...Is this "string theory"..like at Cambridge?.....

[daniel711]

Jube - As much as I enjoy your phonetic writing style, I'm afraid your gonna have to paraphrase that into the 'Queens english' :wink:

[JoeAlders]

Jubilee Valence,

Every time when I am reading your response, and because English is not my native language, I have to print it out, sit down, dug into your response, and after 10 brain-racking minutes I have a vague idea what you may possibly mean. After studying (yes, studying!) all your responses in this discussion thread, I came to the conclusion that you detest a "scientifically" ( yes, I write it between quotes!!) or more precisely, analytically attitude when somebody is confronted with a problem when playing the classical guitar. Of course, one has to be alert not to loose oneself into "scientifical" (again between quotes!) argument loosing sight of where it is all about : making music with one of the finest instruments I know! But sometimes, dear Jubilee Valence, this is inevitable to get into the heart of the matter and one must take the risk of producing an allergic reaction to certain people when they read the word science where in fact Art is the subject.
No, I did not try to adjust my 1A' s action in order to possibly obtain "a more "ergonomically" comfortable or efficient,- height p.s**...." because I am afraid effecting the 1A’s "tone colour" (..ooops!, another scientifical...... ?) and Ramirez choose this height having valid arguments for it I suppose.
Joe.

[daniel711]

Jube - Went back and 'studied' your post. The "term" which might relate 'amplitude' to the force that affects it could be "stiffness" :idea: :?:
ummmm........'stiffness', what an elegant description.......

[Jubilee Valence]

Jube - Went back and 'studied' your post. The "term" which might relate 'amplitude' to the force that affects it could be "stiffness" :idea: :?:
ummmm........'stiffness', what an elegant description..........I've NEVER been slapped using that one,but I'm confused on the application of the term relative to it's --ahem--more common definition; Now of course when in conference w/ certain female lab assts,and the "subject" comes up,perhaps they can lend a .....hand--Thanks, dan-o!!!

[Jubilee Valence]

Jubilee Valence,............

A) ...dear Jubilee Valence, this is inevitable to get into the heart of the matter and one must take the risk of producing an allergic reaction to certain people when they read the word science where in fact Art is the subject..... B) ..No, I did not try to adjust my 1A' s action in order to possibly obtain "a more "ergonomically" comfortable or efficient,- height p.s**... C) ." because I am afraid effecting the 1A’s "tone colour" (..ooops!, another scientifical...... ?) and Ramirez choose this height having valid arguments for it I suppose.
Joe.Hello Joe, and welcome by the way!Yes! art; is our overlying dictum,which we selflessly employ concomitent to our less than glamorous but glorifying lifestyles,hopefully to the end result in which that by our individual involvement towards the enlightenment of our shared world from the illumined communications of it's most gifted and talented artists,we ourselves progress on to highest rungs of the evolutionary ladder, to enjoy and pass on that which we have helped create.Thanks for your thoughts here and overall concern to my dilemma,stated in 1st two posts.However I'm not sure if you're giving advice about my problem, or just adding support, as the nails issue is coming to a head soon, but I'll manage!Your English is a delight! Very descriptive; ie Your ideas are sufficiently "descibed" as to make perfect sense in context.No one here could possibly find fault in your using scientific vernacular in your efforts to enjoy meaningful discourse;Verily, it may even be said that, Here, just may be some of the tops in their fields,who will enjoy a colloquialism or two now & then, in celebration of their pennent tasks & all the more familiar;In apology for B) & C) ;It is indeed insensitive of me to acknowledge your stated issues and offer suggestions by using all of the technology currently available in the arena of musical instrument playability enhancement,when of course you fully intended to demonstrate that any worthwhile results can only be achieved through hard work;pray tell not folly,nor dalliance,nor involvement with those reprehensible scoundrals,plying their trade, NO, craft!! ...ever attempting to befoul the minds of innocent musicians with their hypnotic but illogical cries of "action set-ups!", or "intonation problems,gone!"& the like.You clearly are a pillar Joe!Towering above the more common musicians,such as myself,who have no will in staveing off these, these--privateer luthiers--who dare challenge the great factories in the old world;"Walk;Therefore among us;and give light;That we shall find our way;"

[Sharstrom]

Something I haven't yet seen on this guy's question is that you might find, at least I have, that different tension strings can sound quite different on a particular guitar. Yes, there might be buzzes or not, etc., and you might have a bit easier or more difficult time with technique [barre chords, etc.], but I'm talking about the actual sound...tone and volume...you get from the guitar. On one of my guitars, for example, only Savarez med. tensions seem to sound any good at all, after many years and many sets of different strings [I must say this is a very inexpensive guitar]. On the other hand, I purchased a Ramirez 1a from GSI a few yr. ago and it came with hard tension strings. Since it was a new guitar to me, I right off ordered a selection of different strings, different brands, tensions, etc., and every time I needed new stgs. would install a different set. It turned out no contest, this guitar liked hard tension strings, period. I had a brief period of struggling with barre chords in the lower neck region, but once I realized what it was I was able to adjust and was ok, just had to "think" about the chord for a second as I made it, which I hadn't had to do in years. In no time, I was fine with it. It is going to depend on your ear, your expectation of what sound you desire, what your guitar reacts to and is capable of, and your technique. The great thing is, the fun of trying out different combos of strings. Then, of course, you'll move on to another guitar and have to do it all over again and that is a gas. Part of the fun of guitar. Sometimes a different set of strings will end up giving you a completely new and wonderful instrument. A luthier I talked to about this said he repairs others guitars on the side and that many times he has someone come in complaining about his or her guitar not sounding good and, hopefully, some day they'll have the bucks to get something better [more expensive=better sound, or so they feel]...he sometimes can get them into a different string set and turn them around completely.