question for a luthier

[Libre]

If there are any luthiers out there that I haven't irritated or offended sufficiently to wish a pox on me (Jeremy? Pepe?) I have a question about my John Price guitar. You see, despite my efforts to keep my guitars humidified, I have failed. Many, or most, of them (including the Price) have signs of drying. I have some pretty valuable guitars, and hate to see them in this state. With the Price, the most noticable symptom is the fact that the fret bars stick out like a picket fence, beyond the finger board. I have kept up the humidity with a room humidifier all this winter, but the damage was already done in winters past. It's been suggested to me to put the guitar(s) in a plastic garbage bag (maybe that's where they belong anyway) with copious moisture. What would a luthier recommend?

[Pepe Vergara]

Libre: Do you remember the days when the kids were little and got high fever, and you were far from the doctor? They advise that in those cases, take the kid with you and get into the shower to cool down. That is a serious case of humidity. If the picket fence is low, my first reaction would be to take a humid towel and rub it aganist the fretboard. Allowing the humidity to penetrate the wood. If this has been the case for a long time, then another solution may need to be found. Please confirm.

[Libre]

Hey, Pep -
Yeah, it's been the case for several years. I bought it in October 2001, and kept a dampit in there all winter. It wasn't enough - the picket fence showed its ugle points by the spring. Spring and summer is no problem in New York - it's humid enough. Then, the drying continued the following winter, and my dampit activities were not as regular as the year before, and more drying. This progression continued, until I finally got myself a small humidifer (2 years ago (can't stand those dampits - they smell like old sponges after awhile - I wonder why?) but long-story-short, the damage has been there quite awhile.
This is at least a 6000 dollar guitar. I know I'm a &*&^**&$ (jeremy, fill in the blank) but there you have it.

[jeremy]

Libre,
I am not an advocate of trying to undo what nature has done to a fingerboard. Trying to re-moistureize it may result in cupping across the fretboard (because the moisture will enter the top of the fretboard first), and may even cause the frets to lift at the edges, depending on how well they are stuck in the slots.
It is difficult to get good ebony these days, and even harder to get dry wood. Ebony moves for years. If the guitar plays Ok and the fretboard is fairly straight end to end then leave it alone and just file the ends of the frets. This is not difficult to do and should not cost much from the local repair guy if you cannot do it yourself.
________
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[Libre]

Thank you, Jeremy. After reading what you wrote, I'm quite relieved. The guitar does play fine. I've done a similar repair as what you suggested, to another of my guitars with pretty good results. Here is what I did before -
I used an electric eraser (similar to a dremel tool) with a gritty abrasive eraser (like for erasing ink - stay with me here) to do the filing. I used an erasing shield to protect the surrounding wood. An erasing shield, for those that don't know what I'm referring to, is a very thin piece of stainless steel with holes of varying shapes and diameters in it. I put the shield over the wood, with only the material I want to work on exposed, through one of the small holes in the shield. Then I gently touch it with the eraser, on and off, on and off. It knocks off the sharp edge of the fret bar without marring the finish of the wood at all.
Sound OK?
By the way, I used drawing tools because I'm not a woodworker, I am (was) a mechanical draftsman. So I used the tools I had and they worked.

[steven.schram@reuters.com]

Libre,

I had the same problem with both of my John Price Guitars. The second Price which is the Flemenco Negra/classical strated to dry out on the frets within a month after I brought it home. I keep the humidity in my office at home around 30% or higher and use both a dampit(large size) and a sponge ina plastic bag with holes in the case. Both of these measure did not prevent the fret wires on the ebony fingerboard from shrinking. I was quite ticked off about this and brought it back to luthiers in NYC. They did a professional "file the frets" job in 20 minutes and I went home and have not had the problem since. Its been about a year and a half now. My thoughts are that the guitar fingerboards were either "green" when made or contained a lot of excess moisture. The exact same thing happened to my other John Price guitar several years ago. As I said after the file down the guitar has not exhibited any more shrinkage or drying out. I believe you are in NYC, so just bring it over to Tony and he could do the job while you wait.

Steve

[Libre]

Hey, thanks steve -
Yeah, I'm pretty ticked off as well. Green ebony, eh? It took a lot of green for me to get this guitar. I'll bring it to Tony to do it rather than trying to machine the frets myself, I guess. He's just a few blocks from where i work.

[NGiorgio]

Libre,

I also have a guitar built by John Price. Same thing happened to it the first winter on Long Island. I solved the problem by using the in case humidifier (Credo) sold by G.S.I. It took a year or so, but between the summer humidity and the in case humidifier, the moisture must have returned slowly and naturally without causing any damage to the fretboard. The fret ends are now flush with the edge of the ebony.

As this guitar went through its first winter in my home without very much humidification, I realized that the problem could have been avoided. The Credo units work very well. My theory is that the case needs to be humidified as well as the room in which the guitar is kept, as the instrument is probably in the case most of the time. Dampits and other (in guitar body type) humidifiers will not do much to keep moisture in the neck and fingerboard area of the guitar.

Now living in Florida, my problem has been reversed. More humidity than I need. However, it is a problem much easier to control. BTW, I do miss the NY pizza.

[Libre]

NGiorgio-
If you miss the pizza, please see my recent post in the 1961 to today thread.
I agree about the dampits. Pretty worthless. But it would seem that if there is adaquate ambient humidity, the in-the-case humidifier would not be needed. I keep the case very near the room humidifier, and the case is not air tight, so the humidiy should be about the same inside the case as outside the case. Don't you think?
It seems like all the John Price owners with dried guitars are coming out of the "woodwork" now.
Hey John! You listening??? Green ebony indeed.

[NGiorgio]

Libre,

Believe me, there is a difference in the humidity level from inside the case to the level of the humidity in the room. I used a small hygrometer inside of the case for reference. Next winter, or even this time of the year, get a hygrometer into your case and check it out.

I read the pizza post. That's why I mentioned it. I am amazed that you cannot buy "just a slice" in this part of Florida. Taking a trip to L.I. next week, and a slice or two will be in order.

[Libre]

Hmmmmm. Why wouldn't the humidity level inside the case and outside the case reach a state of equilibrium? Where could the humidity be going, once in the case? It can't just vanish. It's a puzzlement. One of you research scientists out there? Dan, or Yakkeban (forgive me, I forgot the spelling of your handle).

[jeremy]

Before all you start to rip strips off John Price, it would help you to know that this is a problem that all luthers face and is not necessarily a problem caused by green ebony.
Ebony does take a long time to season and become stable. It is very slow to loose moisture because of its density.

Problems can also arise when the luthiers use water soluble glues to attach the fingerboard. The water in the glue makes the fretboard expand and this again takes a great deal of time to return to where it was before being glued. It is possible to use other solvent based glues, like epoxy, but this has its own problems. I find that if I use epoxy for this joint it causes the fretboard to lengthen and this causes a small backbow in the neck.

I moved a batch of Ebony yesterday from my primary drying area to the controlled building environment. The wood is labelled June 2000. I anticipate that when I thickness this batch of about 50 pieces and use them on guitars, it will still give me the problems described in this post.

Makers who "hang" their guitars for a long time after assembly avoid these small problems. John Price makes a lot of guitars each year and cannot afford the time to have them hanging around.
________
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