Bernabe Guitars

[mike.m]

Hi,

Would someone know, does Bernabe sign his guitars?

Thanks.
mike.m

[Miguel Angel]

Yes, he puts his initials PB, on the ones under his name, and also you will find his initials in many Ramírez that he made when he was working with José Ramírez III before he put up his own shop. :arrow:

[Section_10]

Is it true that the M-40's and above are handmade by Paulino? Anyone own one of these 40 or 50? I wonder how they sound compared to conciertos.

[mike.m]

Hi Section_10

I do not have the answer to your question, but I had opportunity to play model 50 with spruce top, and I was impressed! A wonderfull guitar!!

mike.m

[C. Vega]

In recent years Bernabe has signed his top models, Imperial, Concierto, Especial, etc. in addition to using the PB stamp but, as is the case with many other workshops, a signature does not necessarily mean that the guitar was made entirely by him personally. It can also mean that the guitar was built to his design and specifications has met his standards which is more often the case. Amalia Ramirez certainly doesn't make the guitars she signs and neither did her father and brother for the most part. Pablo (Manuel II) Contreras doesn't make all of the guitars he signs himself, though he is very hands-on, and neither did his father. This in a very old practice in the Spanish workshops and is also commonplace on other artistic fields like sculpture.
And look at Conde. Does anyone really believe that all of the newer "signed" Conde guitars out there are really made by those two guys in the back of the store on C. Felipe V? If you do, I have this bridge in Brooklyn.......

The maestro traditionally oversees and maintains a watchful eye on the workshop but most of the actual work is performed by others.
In the old days, the maestro of a guitar workshop would sometimes give each guitar a ceremonial swipe with a chisel just to be able to say that he had a hand in its construction.

It's also most unlikely that Bernabe personally makes the 40s, 50s, etc. There are just too many of them out there. Bernabe has a worldwide network of ten distributors. Do the math. He may oversee their production, select woods, etc. but that's probably as far as it goes.
Bernabe is 73 years old and makes fewer guitars himself each year as time goes on.

I'm certainly not dissing Bernabe or any other maker but simply trying to separate some of the wheat from the chaff regarding the often overly romanticized Spanish guitar business.

[Pepe Vergara]

I aasked Felipe Conde who signed the CONDE HERMANOS signature on their guitars. He said that his brother and him. I deduct taht he doesn't work on making guitars jsut by looking at his hands. Why then they sign Felipe Conde or whatever? It seems to me that the person who signs could be anyone. In the past, many luthiers did not sign their guitars. One of the reasons, is that they did not know how to write or they had a poor handwriting, so they prefered to have their logos typeset, or mechanically made. Torres did have a nice handwriting toughg. Same thing in Mexico. Several years ago, when I did an "internship" over there, I tried to use my measuring devices to fiddle with the scale, but the master workded with a template that was passed on by this granpa, who got it frm someone from Spain in the old days. They know and they are experts with the hands, but lack the basic scientific (math) knowledge to come up with innovations. That is changing though! One of the Velasques is actually an mechanical engineer from the US who after working for several years at the Detroit automovil plants, decided to move back to Mexico and make guitars (last time I saw him, he was selling, commercializing them, not making them).

[C. Vega]

In regard to Conde, Jose Romanillos, in his extensive dictionary of Spanish makers does not even list Mariano, Hijo and Felipe Conde, the two brothers who run the Felipe V shop, as luthiers. In fact, he doesn't mention them at all. He lists their father, Mariano Sr., and their uncles Faustino and Julio but not them. He simply states that the firm is still "trading" in Madrid. The dearth of words speaks volumes.
The old shop at C. Gravina, 7, the original Esteso shop, is run by Faustino Conde's widow. When asked the about the source of the guitars they sell (they certainly aren't made there) the stories can vary considerably depending on who is doing the telling but the most usual one is that they are made by "Faustino's apprentices". I guess they all got jobs working in Valencian factories. The viuda Conde is quite a saleslady. She'd do well selling used cars from a trailer. I think that she's sold "the last guitar Faustino made" to unwary buyers at least a hundred times.
And then there's a third shop on C. Atocha. The tall tales are even better there.

[Mischa Z]

Yes, he puts his initials PB, on the ones under his name, and also you will find his initials in many Ramírez that he made when he was working with José Ramírez III before he put up his own shop. :arrow:

Hi, Folks:

Yes, I've owned a couple of Bernabe 10-strings, and they were initialed. However, the initials on the Ramirez guitars can lead to confusion. I thought that "MC" on a late 60s 1A Ramirez that I had traded Pepe Romero for (I gave him a Velasquez) belonged to "Manuel Contreras," but i learned later that these initials were used by another luthier who was apprenticing in the Ramirez workshop at the same time as Contreras. Information is available on this subject, I wish I had a copy.

All my best,
Mischa

[Jubilee Valence]

http://www.guitarsalon.com/index.php?site_url=23 there's some good ones there & I thought that the Ramirez site had some good historical info, but it's been awhile...if I remember correctly, the initials were of the luthiers first and middle names at the older Ramirez shop....

[Miguel Angel]

Ramírez Guitars have been made by many luthiers, many of them well known today, and one of them is Paulino Bernabé. You will find on Ramírez website the initials of most of the luthiers that appear in Ramírez guitars, and one of them is Paulino Bernabé. :arrow:

[C. Vega]

The initals M.C. in Ramirez guitars are those of Manuel Caceres Pizarro. He is still working in Madrid.
Contreras used the initials M.G. His full name was Manuel Gonzalez Contreras. He only worked for Ramirez for about three years, from 1959 until 1962. He labeled his own guitars either M. G. Contereas or Manuel G. Contreras
In Spanish culture, it is customary to use the surnames of both parents in formal situations with the father's surname coming first.
Bernabe's full name is Paulino Bernabe Almendariz.

Likewise, Ignacio Rozas used the initials I.M. when he worked for Ramirez, his full name being Ignacio Manzano Rozas. He uses the name Ignacio M. Rozas on his own guitars.

[NGiorgio]

I know this has been stated many times on this forum. It does not matter very much who made the guitar. An apprentice, a group of artisans or one luthier. If the guitar plays well and sounds good to your ears, that is what is most important. Not who built it.

I was at one time, very impressed by the instruments that the pro's played and/or endorsed. Had to have a Ramirez or Fleta etc. Today, any guitar that I own must please me in its action, tonal response and build quality, not the name on the label.

In my humble opinion, too much emphasis is placed on the label, or who signed it, and not the guitar itself.

[Jubilee Valence]

---I HEAR THAT!!!!---just the other day!--I played a couple of Aparicos(cheap!---awesome!!!) & a couple of Raimundos!---one a 104B--had enough saddle showing to drop all the way down to "polish the frets with the strings"--i.e. laying down flat!!!---all with GREAT sound & action & intonation(& in a humidor!!)--I could sell the R1 & buy THREE of 'em!!!!...wonder if the "boys" HERE take "trades" & they even know what I paid!!! LOLOLOLOLOL..."A.L.---daddy's comin'!"

[MWA]

Wouldn't it be nice to know that the Ramirez (or any other maker) you are looking at was made by Alhambra and that you can get essentially the same model from them for less money?

[Jubilee Valence]

....or even Raimundo(Raimondo--sp?)!!!!!!!!!!!

[C. Vega]

The E-series Ramirez guitars are made by Alhambra.

I think that a lot of people would be surprised to find out where their "famous label" guitar actually came from.

[Jubilee Valence]

...interestingly enough, the professor that I occasioned to visit with briefly in Tucson politely corrected me in that my "gem" of an R1 was in fact manufactured at Alhambra rather than Raimundo; but the "star" of the day was my 30 yr old, broken playable flamenca blanca(Shinano) and we were in fact graciously rewarded with a mini-concert performed entirely with it!--it has since been contracted for a "workover"--saving the top in it's entirety of course....the action is so low that a dime just fits under the strings at the 12th with no "fretting out" anywhere--as our host's staff utilized the complete range of the instrument during our stay

[Miguel Angel]

It is correct that the Ramírez E series of student guitars are manufactured by Alhambra, but the R series are really manufactured by Raimundo, to the specifications of a special design made by José Ramírez III during the 1980's. The manufacture of student guitars in factories out of their shop in Madrid is no secret, and the Ramírez people openlly accept it, what they only assure is that the design & specifications is under their control. Just look into the R series, and you will find many visual details in their design resemble many old Ramírez from the begining of the 20th century, the headstock of the Rs is identical to many of the old ones. :arrow:

[Jubilee Valence]

"Beggin' the Colonel's pardon..."( :lol: I ALWAYS WANTED TO SAY THAT!--thanks Miguel! :mrgreen:)---the thing that I notice RIGHT AWAY is the SOLID side bracing(inside--top & back) as opposed to the little squares on many guitars...but now, --I'm seeing this phenom literally on so many different makes & models & in every price range --right along side the same makers equipment -having the little squares!!....it's amazing!--I see no absolute one or the other!!!...( I love how these "classical guitar" threads ALWAYS end up "here"[RAMIREZ]!LOLOLOLOLOLOL....I don't think I could ever really part with it for that reason alone!....a conversation piece!...& a GEM at that!...)