Left-hand thumb

[Shroomy726]

My teacher has this thing, he KILLS me when he sees my thumb come out of behind of the neck of the guitar. Of course, I am talking of the right hand. It's hard to get off from this habit because electric guitar uses this position always! I have almost eliminated it, but I still need to think about it. I was just wondering if everyone else has heard this before from other teachers.

Lionel

[rquinones27]

I have a little bit of this problem although I have never played electric. I do notice that my left thumb peeks just enough over the top. I must say that I have very large hands and long fingers, and that could be it. But it kills me when I see someone else playing and their thumb is perfectly square in the center at the back of the neck and it seems that it doesn't move from there. Is there a way to fix this?

[WillBee]

my thumb lies somewhat parallel on the back of the neck. i used to hold it more perpendicular to the neck, but i started getting joint pain in my left arm that i think that orginal position was responsible for.

took a while to change it, but basically did it by going through scale and slur studies very slowly every day (okay, lie, i tried to do it everyday :D ) with complete focus on maintaining the hand position i wanted (especially during position changes)

[Shroomy726]

rquinones27-
You say that you have large hands, I understand. But have you tried to play with thumb right in the dead center of the neck? Does it seem uncomfortable this way? If it does then maybe you have one of two problems. Either your hands are too big (I cant help you there, lol) or you are placing your hands incorrectly. Maybe someone with a little more expertise can give some advice, but if you are placing them incorrectly, then just start playing exercises very slow until you get used to the position. I did chromatic exercises and it help a lot.

WillBee-
Could you elaborate a little more on how you place your thumb? I understand that you place it parallel to the neck, but I really do not see how that is possible! I used to have it 45 degrees, but now I try to keep it 90 degrees. I don't think that I can go 45 more.
Pumping Nylon discusses the perpendicular position, and it mentions to keep the thumb behind the 'm' finger. I have seen that this position works best for me.

Lionel

[WillBee]

things like this can be hard to explain only in words without seeing, but i will try...

hold your left hand as naturally as possible, with the palm facing you, and fingers out. i suspect that your thumb will more or less in the same plane as the rest of your fingers, pointing in a different direction that your four other fingers. (mine is about 45 degrees, depends on your anatomy)

what you are trying to do is find the position of your hand that has zero tension in the fingers. i have to use muscles to move my thumb "behind" my middle finger, so that is not the most relaxed position for my hand

now curl your four fingers around, like they would be to hold the guitar. this should look like a relaxed version of the classic hitch-hiking hand gesture. when i do this my thumb in pointing in a direction 90 degrees from my other 4 fingers. that is basic hand shape i use to hold the neck.

have you encounted E and M physics in your studies yet? this is the same hand position that is used in the so-called hand rules that determine current and magnetic field directions

i think playing positions are like golf swings (was it tennant who said that?) lots of people acheive wonderful results with different techniques, there is no right technique, only the technique that is right for you. (is that an echo of another post i hear??? :wink: )

i also used to hold my thumb directly behind my 2 finger, but developped terrible "guitar elbow" throughout my left arm. a new teacher suggested the different posture, and i have been tension free since (at least in my left arm)

[Shroomy726]

Yes, I have encountered this position a few semesters back in my physics class. I see what you mean now. I agree that we all should use the position that fits us best. In my case it is the Scott Tenant way, I am glad it is :D I just thought it would be uncomfortable for you to do it that way. Anyways, thanks for your replies.

Lionel

[BigMac5]

My teacher has this thing, he KILLS me when he sees my thumb come out of behind of the neck of the guitar. Of course, I am talking of the right hand. It's hard to get off from this habit because electric guitar uses this position always! I have almost eliminated it, but I still need to think about it. I was just wondering if everyone else has heard this before from other teachers.

Lionel

That's funny I have the opposite problem. I did have that problem at the beginning but corrected it after a months. Now that I am learning to play electric guitar, I forget to hook my thumb over the neck for bends and other stuff. It just feels awkward now.

[rquinones27]

rquinones27-
You say that you have large hands, I understand. But have you tried to play with thumb right in the dead center of the neck? Does it seem uncomfortable this way? If it does then maybe you have one of two problems. Either your hands are too big (I cant help you there, lol) or you are placing your hands incorrectly. Maybe someone with a little more expertise can give some advice, but if you are placing them incorrectly, then just start playing exercises very slow until you get used to the position. I did chromatic exercises and it help a lot.

Lionel

Shroomy:
I have tried to play with the thumb right in the dead center of the neck, and it does feel a little uncomfortable. Maybe I'm placing my hands incorrectly, which is what I'm trying for figure out. But I also have big hands, so I don't know which one is true of both of those statements. A little contradicting, isn't? Help....!

[BigMac5]

I have tried to play with the thumb right in the dead center of the neck, and it does feel a little uncomfortable. Maybe I'm placing my hands incorrectly, which is what I'm trying for figure out. But I also have big hands, so I don't know which one is true of both of those statements. A little contradicting, isn't? Help....!


Do you place your thumb flat on the neck? The reason I ask is because my teacher had my placed my thumb more on its left side. This feelt very natural to me. I never place my thumb flat on the neck. I also have big hands, but maybe yours are bigger. What would be a good way to measure hand size?

Edit:
On my Electric guitar I can't keep my thumb right on the middle, but I still use the left side of my thumb.

[rquinones27]

I just checked and I place my thumb flat on the back of the neck not on the side. The tip of the thumb is what shows, about half of my thumb nail if you will. I find it odd because for the most part, the good players that I have seen play live, play with their thumbs completely hidden from view when you see them playing from the front. I don't know of a good way to measure my hand, but as a reference I meauseed it by opening the hand, and putting the fingers altogether. This is what I roughly came up with: 4-1/2" x 8-1/4"

[BigMac5]

I don't know of a good way to measure my hand, but as a reference I meauseed it by opening the hand, and putting the fingers altogether. This is what I roughly came up with: 4-1/2" x 8-1/4"

Is that width x length?

[rquinones27]

The 4-1/2" is the width from one side of the palm to the other. The 8-1/4" is the length measuring from the wrist joint to the tip of the longest finger.

[BigMac5]

Guesstimating, using a straight ruler, I measure 8-3/8" length and 4" width. I am not the expert here, but maybe we could get together and help each other out.

[rquinones27]

That would be great. I had suggested that to you sometime ago on a different post. I live in Rancho del Rey, Chula Vista. Where are you at?

[BigMac5]

Eastlake, Chula Vista.

[Hucbald]

My left hand thumb is usually in the top half of the neck, but it varies quite a bit. Some of the chords I invent have quite wide spans, and the ONLY way to get them is to put the tip of my thumb on the BOTTOM of the neck right next to the fretboard. For others that require an interior finger flange, there is NO WAY for me to physically keep my thumb from coming up above the neck and get them (Sorry, but I don't have a female's loose joint physiology and my fingers don't do reverse bends very well). I's not a problem, as far as I'm concerned. Teachers who say "you need to keep your fingers curved like this", or "your thumb should never show" have got to be insane. Either that or the only repertory they have is that which requires no complex harmonies with wide spans or interior finger flanges. Everything in art is a reflection of nature, and your technique should be too. Of course, there are awkward ways to do things, but if you approach it with logic, you'll find the natural solution.

It never surprises me when I hear that "so-and-so developed tendonitis" if that particular player is one of those guys who fell for the "this is the only correct position" BS. Even when I am parcticing 10-12 hours per day, which I do at certain points during the year, I have zero pain, cramping, sorness or any other kind of discomfort. And I'm 47 years old. In fact, my flexibility and stretch have never been better and they continue to solidify in the extremes of their ranges. I definately attribute that to learning from my own individual physiology in a natural way.

Hucbald

[rquinones27]

Hucbald:
You have a good point about the art aspect of guitar playing and it somehow makes me feel much better about my thumb showing a little over the top of fretboard. I will keep that in mind.

BigMac5:
I usually meet with a friend on Wednesdays in my house for some jamming and playing. We won't meet today, but maybe we could get together sometime. We are working on Tears in Heaven (unplugged version) as a duet and is almost done. Let me know if you are interested to get together. Of course, there is no obligation.

[BigMac5]

BigMac5:
I usually meet with a friend on Wednesdays in my house for some jamming and playing. We won't meet today, but maybe we could get together sometime. We are working on Tears in Heaven (unplugged version) as a duet and is almost done. .

Tears in Heaven as a duet sounds awesome.