Denis Azabagic

[Libre]

Anybody know of this player?
I saw an amazing video of him playing the Allegro movement of La Catedral on YouTube. I can't figure out how to post the link to it though.
He's won some international competitions - but still I was unaware of him until I happened to stumble on this video.
Let me just say that his playing of this piece is totally awesome. PHENOMENAL!!
Do you know of him? Have I been so out of touch, I never heard of him - because he is really top drawer.

Just goes to show you how hard it is to make a name for yourself in this business.
You young bucks, in CG programs in college, who are going to take the concert stage by storm and get famous playing guitar - find the video of Denis Azabagic playing La Catedral on YouTube.
Maybe you shouldn't look at it - you may switch your major over to accounting.
Also, if anybody knows how to link to a vid on YouTube, you might post it here so others can see this fantastic performance.

[thraex]

I do! heheh

He is only second to Zoran Dukic in number of competitions won, in many they were 1-2. Being from rival countries (Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia, respectively)
Denis Azabagic recently started teaching (2 yrs) in Chicago, where one of the Assad's is also a faculty member, he studied in Rotterdam's conservatory.
He is pretty good, and fairly famous in Europe, but I guess he moved to the US to open up new horizons.
I have a spanish friend from my days in the Hague that is currently studying with him.
His playing, I find it a bit on the flat side, specially on the more complex Asencio pieces he plays.
He plays duo with his wife (flute)
..........
that is what I can tell you..

Cheers,
Thraex

[ykabban]

Azabagic is actually well known in the CG community. I saw him in Charleston a few years back, he's a great player, but nothing special. I remember watching videos of him in my college rep. class(one of the Mel bay deals), he's been around for a while and has a pretty successful career; I think :?:

About that making a name for yourself thing. Only one of my friends(truly exceptional) who sought to make a career of CG is still playing, surely to have a successful career. The others hardly even play anymore. Funny you should mention accounting, that is exactly what one is doing right now. I took the smart route.

Unless you're extraordinary, you will end up teaching or something similar.
Just think about how many classical guitarists out of the thousands you would actually want to see in concert. There are but a handful of truly "successful" concert guitarists, what are the chances you are going to be one. The way I feel about it is this--"Dude, if you don't have the chops now, forget about it."

[racer_x]

I seen a Mel Bay series video of Denis where he plays that piece as well as some others. Technically I was impressed by his abilities, but he seems to be more like a midi player than a person. Needs more feeling. The video makes for a very good sleep sedative.

[Great Googly Moogly]

Holy ****!

(I hope I don't get in trouble for cursing but how else can it be said?)

This is my favorite classical guitar piece of all time and I've been working on it for a while now. I've owned Azabagic's version on CD for a while but seeing him play it is something else! THANK YOU, Libre! Up to now, I've liked Williams' version better, mainly because I liked the particular "version" he recorded (Barrios often having more than one version of the same piece) but in this video, Azabagic is playing the same version. I think this particular version of the "3rd movement" is based off of a Barrios recording and varies a little bit from anything that had been put down on paper. I have the transcription for this version, also, if anybody wants it. I started with a score that I purchased and listened to Williams' version by ear (slowed down) to get the differences. Now that I see Azabagic playing this on video, I can see that I had most (if not all) of the hand positions right. This is going to be a HUGE help to me for doing the finishing touches on the piece! Libre, thank you!

Here's the link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SMp2KSvoidU&search=Azabagic%20catedral

[Faya]

Cool ! 8)

thanks!!

[Todd]

He's pretty good, but he's no Su Meng...
:lol:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChZ_YRVk4Mc&search=su%20meng

[Libre]

Well Todd, I looked at the video of Su, and disregarding the fact that I dislike that caprice (and Pagenini in general), she's pretty good, but no Denis Azabagic.
Locust-
Yes YES YES, I want, I NEED the transcription. PLEASE please pls, and THANK YOU thank you thnk yu.
You know where to email it.
I greatly apprecitate it.
I can't wait.

[Faya]

i do agree with racer-x in that it should be more about the feeling than your tech abilities................Granted tech should not be over looked.

i did find that Denis seemed to play with MORE feeling than Su on these links IMHO...................but in all honesty if i had to sit through a concert of only that kind of stuff i would be falling asleep........ :lol: :lol: :lol:

DON'T get me wrong!!!!.............awesome playing on both!

AND you can't deny the Tech ability!!.................. :!:

[Dave Tate]

I think Denis sounds great there, and I hear plenty of "feeling". That Vowinkel sounds great too!

Dave

[Faya]

yes Dave. Denis has plenty of "feeling" :wink: ..............i didn't think Su Meng was gettin' it across............. to me at least. .................but what do i know :lol: :lol: .................i'm just some weirdo who actually likes Ottmar Liebert's music................and has all his CD's.......... :lol: 8) :arrow: (no joke)

[Libre]

I guess we all approach music and guitar performance with a different perspective. I would prefer great technique and - understated feeling, than sloppy playing and any amount of feeling.
BUT, I don't see how it can be said he plays without feeling. Fall asleep? I was on the edge of my seat listening to Denis' performance. Can't you see his rapture, he almost swoons. And I hear it in his playing. I betcha those that think he has no feeling thing the same about JW. I seem to remember racer_x saying so. And Todd. And I think the opposite. But I don't want to start another JW flame war. I just love this playing of the Barrios by Denis. And I had NO prior expectations because I never heard him play before.

[Faya]

if you read my posts you will see i never said Denis doesn't play with feeling :wink: .......................all i said is that i would fall a sleep if i had to listen to a whole concert of that kind of stuff........."Stuff" meaning that particular type of classical music..................Nothing More and Nothing Less did i mean.

i played in a couple of so called Neo-Classical metal bands that did the same kind of stuff and i'm just a little burnt out on it............no biggy :lol:

i totally have the utmost respect for it!!!..... and if i wasn't so burnt out on those particular kind of scales and arppegios...........i would be right there with ya on this. :D
it's just me................not a TRUTH scribed on stone of anything. :lol:
Just that my tastes have changed...................you know how life is..........sometimes the things we once loved with all our heart and soul......become repetitive and boring, as sad as it may be :( ...............AGAIN just my opinion .....nothing more and nothing less

i'm not saying anything against their playing,(becuase it's AWESOME!!), or them as human beings!!.....i'm just not into that at this moment in time.

are we cool with that....???

[Libre]

Hey Fay-
I'm not taking issue with you. Not at all. I just think this piece in particular, and Barrios in general, is the highest peak of composition for the guitar. I think it's utterly magnificent. It moves me - it doesn't have to do a thing for you. Sure, my tastes have changed too.

[Faya]

Yo libre..........i love Barrios and didn't take anything you said in a bad way what so ever. i just felt the need to clarify what iwas saying about the "feeling" and "Asleep" thing that's all................ya know some people lately have been getting their emotions all fired up............and i just didn't want that over something so simple..............cool

Besides you know me well enough that if i thought you were messin' with me i'd tell ya what i think................. :lol:

[dennis]

faya - you like ottmar too? I'm working on a solo version of Bombay right now that I was using a transcription and a solo version off his website.

I'm going to get flamed for this I bet, but the guy has a gift for melody

[Faya]

yo dennis...... another fellow Ottmar guy :shock: ..........i totally get ya.......
My dad always called him the B.B.King of nylon guitar. :lol: ........which if you think of it...........makes total sense :lol:

Yeup i even met him after a show on my way into the restroom........and shook his hand,(before i went of course.), and said...."Great show man!!".......... :lol: :lol:

[GSI Fan]

OTTMAR??????? :shock:

Faya, the guy is incredible!!! Mrs. Fanny and I saw him live. I was f-ing dizzy afterwards. What a show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Btw, we have ALL his CDs too - including his Christmas CD. :wink:

[dennis]

All right, that is cool, I like his stuff, and I like playing it too, and Fan , he is really good live too. He's been playing DeVoe's guitars for a couple of years now. I have less than a year wait for mine :D :o :D

I also like playing road to her home, it is a fun tremolo piece. Y'all play any of 'em?

[Faya]

Fanny!!!...........You too!!!...........MAN!! i thought iwas all alone with this on this forum :lol: :lol:

YEAH..........i really like the guys music.......it's sooooooooo............what's the word??,.............ZEN!! yeah that's it.

[dennis]

Faya, it's just that few of us admit it, 'cause we'll get beat up!

[Faya]

Yeup.........i play lots of them........first one that me and my dad learned was "surrender 2 Love".............after that we just couldn't help ourselves and had to learn that whole CD................and many more..... :lol: :lol: 8)

OOOpppppPsssssssSS!!!!!...........sorry for the thread hi-jack! :oops:

[Faya]

Faya, it's just that few of us admit it, 'cause we'll get beat up!

:lol: :lol: :lol: not me man!!!........... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GSI Fan]

Faya, it's just that few of us admit it, 'cause we'll get beat up!

Dennis...

I'm not afraid to own up to liking Ottmar...and I'm DEFINITELY NOT afraid anyone is gonna beat me up over it...how's that expression go; "I pity the fool..." :wink:

Faya...no sheeeeet! When we saw him live I would swear he had a third hand that snuck in...our Bud, the Jubinator, should go bonkers over Ottmars' SPEED!!!! I know I was impressed...and still am! 8)

[Faya]

Fan...........ya..........a lot people don't know that about him.....he's got one heck of a rest-stroke when he wants it :wink: .

i'm gonna send some to Jubi-San.............. :idea:
8)

[GSI Fan]

Faya, it's just that few of us admit it, 'cause we'll get beat up!

:lol: :lol: :lol: not me man!!!........... :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Let's get ready ta' rumble!!!! :wink:

[Faya]

Faya, it's just that few of us admit it, 'cause we'll get beat up!

:lol: :lol: :lol: not me man!!!........... :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Let's get ready ta' rumble!!!! :wink:

OHHHhhhhhh!!!! ........YEEEEAAAAHHHhhhhh!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[dennis]

All right y'all, do we need to talk strings some more? :lol: :lol: 8)

[Faya]

All right y'all, do we need to talk strings some more? :lol: :lol: 8)

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: LLLLLLLLOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
AAAAWWWW MAN!!!......I'M LAUGHING SO HARD I GOT TEARS RUNNING DOWN MY FACE!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

GOOD ONE!!! :lol:

[Faya]

OK!!!................i guess we should give this thread back to it's rightful owner Libre now.............Sorry again fer the Hi-Jack!! :wink:

Man!!!............still laughin'.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dennis]

Thanks much, y'all can dance if you want too. Faya - are you transcribing your stuff by ear, and by chance might you have transcribed Morning Arrival in Goa? Just curious, I'm lazy and it takes me a while to try.

[Faya]

Let's see....... "morning arrival in Goa".........that's off "The hours between night & day"" right??............i'll have to go dig it out and listened to it again.
until then..........i just learn it all by ear. i don't write anything down or anything.............i'll get back to ya on that! :wink:

Good Night all..........until we meet again.

[dennis]

Yep, sure is, here is a live version he did, you and Fan will like it,

http://www.ssri.biz/music/mp3/Goa-Live05.mp3

Don't do too much, this summer I have been trying ear training, and I really should not get too lazy, but many thanks!! I tell you what though, there is so much stuff out there to learn and so much good music, it can be overwhelming, you hear something new and think 'I need to learn that' then the next day....

[Great Googly Moogly]

Hey Fay-
I'm not taking issue with you. Not at all. I just think this piece in particular, and Barrios in general, is the highest peak of composition for the guitar. I think it's utterly magnificent. It moves me - it doesn't have to do a thing for you. Sure, my tastes have changed too.
Definitely what Faya said, for sure. It's ALL subjective. Me, myself, I couldn't agree with Libre more. John Williams felt the same way about Barrios. But definitely, definitely all subjective, no doubt.

I'm just catching up on this thread and have some more things to share about this piece in a minute.

[Great Googly Moogly]

I just wanted to clarify a couple of things I posted earlier that were incorrect since I don't like to pass around bad information.


I've liked Williams' version better, mainly because I liked the particular "version" he recorded (Barrios often having more than one version of the same piece) but in this video, Azabagic is playing the same version. I think this particular version of the "3rd movement" is based off of a Barrios recording and varies a little bit from anything that had been put down on paper. I have the transcription for this version, also, if anybody wants it. I started with a score that I purchased and listened to Williams' version by ear (slowed down) to get the differences. Now that I see Azabagic playing this on video, I can see that I had most (if not all) of the hand positions right. This is going to be a HUGE help to me for doing the finishing touches on the piece! Libre, thank you!

As it turns out, the Williams version that I transcribed is not the same as Azabagic's. Azabagic is playing a version that has already been published by Mel Bay in The Complete Works of Agustin Barrios Mangore, Vol.1 by Rico Stover and this version is probably the closest to what Barrios himself actually recorded. It is Williams' version that has several variations, some of which can not be explained by Rico's critical notes in the back of the book. (There are so many possible variations listed for these Barrios pieces, it hurts your head just to look at them.) When I got home, I actually listened to the six different versions of La Catedral that I have on my hard drive (Denis Azabagic, David Lorenz, two versions by John Williams, Sharon Isbin and Barrios himself) and verified that none of them are exactly the same. The Williams version that I transcribed is from the CD: From the Jungles of Paraguay, Williams Plays Barrios and is defiantly my favorite "version" of the piece, even though I thought Azabagic's performance blew everybody else's doors off. As far as the performance of the piece goes, I think Azabagic actually blew away Williams, which is something I never thought I'd hear myself say.

Libre,

Now that I have the benefit of this video, I'm just gonna comb through my transcription one more time before sending it to you. My version has TAB also, which I don't know whether is good or bad for you? Some people, of course, love it. :)

[BenB]

He is very well known in the cg world.


You young bucks, in CG programs in college, who are going to take the concert stage by storm and get famous playing guitar - find the video of Denis Azabagic playing La Catedral on YouTube.
Maybe you shouldn't look at it - you may switch your major over to accounting.


Just curious, what does this mean and why did you say it?

[Libre]

Locust-
I greatly appreciate it. I don't use the tab, but if it's there along with the score, that's fine.
I agree that Azabagic's version is SUPER. I just listened to William's version this morning (iPod, bus into work) from the Jungles album. Hard to say which is "better". It's safe to say that both of them can be proud. The Jungles album is so incredible. I never heard Barrios himself. Are the recordings good - even by yesteryear's standards? How is the playing? Does Barrios playing Barrios approach Williams playing Barrios?

BebB-
What does this mean? It means, simply, that watching Azabagic is a humbling experience, and it means that unless you think you're going to surpass him - which I doubt but it's not impossible - then maybe you should think about an alternate career.
Why do I say it? I say it because it is vitally important for young people to understand what they are up against before comitting the best years of their education to such a long shot.

Why do you ask?

[nylon6]

If you search for Denis Azabagic on YouTube, you'll find several other performances, and this masterclass excerpt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwoDsFeoIw&search=denis%20azabagic

[ChrisAM86]

I don't see why being able to surpass Azabagic would be that difficult, the allegro solemne movement of La Catedral isn't even that hard. That video of Su Meng, on the other hand, is definately something to aspire to. That Paganini caprice is in an entirely different realm of difficulty than the Barrios, for her to be able to play it almost perfectly as well as have good tone is almost astonishing.

[Great Googly Moogly]

That's awesome ChrisAM86! Could you post a video of your performance of La Catedral? It doesn't sound like it would be much effort for you to do it and I would love to see it!

[dap22]

Libre-Thanks for the heads up to all of us young bucks in guitar programs ;)
Denis Azabagic is an outstanding player, I saw him a couple of years ago play solo and in duo with his wife. The video of La Catedral, as well as many of the others posted on youtube, are from his MelBay video recorded after he won first prize in the GFA in 1998, and is from the same time he recorded his Naxos album, which contains a very similar program. Libre, you might want to check out www.guitarfoundation.org
It is the webstie that lists all of the first prize winners of the GFA competition, who knows, maybe you could have found out about Azabagic eight years ago and wouldn't have had to wait so long to discover such a great player. There are many more like him out there. He teaches at Roosevelt University in Chicago where Sergio Assad also teaches.
ChrisAM86, surpassing Azabagic is THAT difficult because he is THAT good, however, there are plenty of young guys up for the challenge. Since the Allegro Solemne movement of La Catedral isn't even that hard, maybe you could post of video of yourself playing it better than anyone else for us? Sure, maybe its not as tough as Aquarelle or the Berio Sequenza, but it is still a heavy piece.

Surpassing Azabagic isn't the goal though, is it? Afterall all, he has ALREADY established himself as a concert guitarist and outstanding professor. The people to surpass are the people who are trying to establish concert careers, not people who have had international acclaim for a long time. It isn't a matter of replacing someone, it is a matter of being your own player and playing in a different light so that there is room for you on the concert stage. Was Segovia ever 'replaced'? No. But players like Barrueco and Russell made room for themselves on the international concert calendar. And if you aren't that good and you love it that much, it isn't a matter of changing your career, it's a matter of working harder!

Thraex-You said Azabagic has the most top prizes second to Zoran Dukic...I am not trying to sound snotty, while Azabagic has won a huge amount of international awards (24 top prizes, 11 of which are first prize in international competitions) in 2004 Marcin Dylla held 17 international first place prizes, but I believe he has since then won more, and that is only 17 first place prizes, he got second at GFA this past year, and I am sure he has had many more top prizes. Also, Goran Krivokapic has a huge number of international awards, I think maybe more than Marcin Dylla, not sure, I am just curious if you could please point me in any direction as to where to find info on which prizes these guitarists and others have won. Thanks in advance.

On a final note, have any of you heard Matthew Rhode play La Catedral? I heard him play it a few times in different rounds at the Rantucci Guitar Competition (in which he won first prize) and it blew me away. While he plays the third movement about 10 times faster than any other recording or live performance I have seen, it is soooo clean and the phrases are shaped so well and his tone is golden, it is really amazing. The first two movements are also really beautiful. I know he was an undergrad at the Yale School of Music where he studied with Ben Verdery, but I haven't heard anything about him in a while. Does anybody have any info on Matthew Rhode? He is definitely a player to look out for, if he does release an album it would take the guitar community by storm.

So to sum up this post, Azabagic is an amazing player and teacher and extremely musical, and his tone is controlled and amazing! He is definitely among the best, but there are quite a few out there, what makes them so good though is that they are each individuals and different from eachother. Libre, glad you enjoy his playing, but don't get over excited and please stop discouraging young guys from trying to pursue their dreams, remember, although now Azabagic is a huge force on the guitar scene, at one time, he too was a young guy struggling to learn this instrument, he loved it enough and practiced enough and had enough talent to make it though.

DAP

[ChrisAM86]

the point of my post wasn't to disrespect Mr. Azabagic's abilities, because he is surely one of the best players around today. But is he the type of player that the college players should be looking up to to surpass? No, they should be looking at their real competition. Players such as Su Meng, who's technique and tone are already leagues beyond the likes of players such as Azabagic, Williams and Russell.

One thing I don't understand about some of you is the need for me to post a video or a recording of a piece that I've criticized someone playing. I see the same people who call me out criticize various concert level performers on their interpretations of different pieces, yet they don't feel the need to post a clip of them playing it, so why should I? It's like saying I should go out and try and make a better movie than M. Night Shyamalan because I think all of his films suck.

Anyways, back to the topic. I think the attitude of trying to surpass Denis Azabagic is wrong, because once you've finally worked your ass off and gotten to that point, you run into a monster of a player such as Su Meng. Wouldn't it be smarter to try and surpass her?

[thraex]

Dap22,

Good and eloquent post...
To be sincere, I failed.. I cannot find a list of all Zoran's prizes, but that is the normal "propaganda" he puts on his programs. His site is been down for awhile, but here is one example of what I was referring to:

http://www.guitar-festival.com/dukic_engl.htm

In fact I know all 4: Zoran(teaches in the hague),Denis(lived in Rotterdam before moving to US),Goran and Marcyn(I saw both of them at Maastricht where they studied)
It might be that Marcyn has surpassed, I don't know, what I know is his rate of entering competitions is slowing down, now that he is got some fame, Goran is less well known, but an amazing talent.
It does not matter, unless for statistics purposes, or does it? :)

Cheers,
Thraex

[Great Googly Moogly]

I don't see why being able to surpass Azabagic would be that difficult, the allegro solemne movement of La Catedral isn't even that hard.

ChrisAM86,

I was doing nothing more and nothing less than taking you completely seriously. There was no sarcasm intended in my post whatsoever. I wasn't "challenging" you. You said that La Catedral wasn't that hard. I, personally, would be impressed with anyone who considered this piece easy and would consider them to be out of my league. I never posted anything claiming the piece was easy. The piece is difficult for me so why would I try and post a video of myself playing it? As I said, I was taking you seriously up to now, but now I've got you figured to be a novice player who likes to run his mouth to make himself feel better about being a nobody.

If anyone would like to criticize me for these harsh words towards ChrisAM86, I'll be open to it. But since I'm not going to pay attention to his posts anymore, I would advise him not to bother wasting his time on a response to me.

God bless,
The Brianmeister

[nylon6]

Players such as Su Meng, who's technique and tone are already leagues beyond the likes of players such as Azabagic, Williams and Russell.



As long as you're making outrageous claims, you might get her name right--it's Meng Su according to the Parkening Competition website--unless you know something that they don't.
http://www.pepperdine.edu/arts/parkening/youngguitarist/competitors/su.htm

[ChrisAM86]

Players such as Su Meng, who's technique and tone are already leagues beyond the likes of players such as Azabagic, Williams and Russell.



As long as you're making outrageous claims, you might get her name right--it's Meng Su according to the Parkening Competition website--unless you know something that they don't.
http://www.pepperdine.edu/arts/parkening/youngguitarist/competitors/su.htm

Who cares if I got her name wrong? Everywhere that I've seen a video or a recording of her it's been written as Su Meng, so why would I think otherwise? And please, name a piece on the level of Paganini's 24th caprice that any of the above 3 have recorded.

[nylon6]

She probably cares.... Anyway, I'm not sure what naming a challenging piece has to do with getting her name wrong (a coherent flow of ideas is always fun), but Williams has recorded the 24th Caprice. The Handel harpsichord suite that Russell recorded, while not as obviously flamboyant, would be just as hard to play due to the amount of counterpoint.

[GSI Fan]

HOLY CRAP!!!! :shock:

Not to change the subject or interfer with a great debate...BUT!...I was wondering what everyone thought about Yanni???? :twisted:

[brian richardson]

yawn-ni?


hi fanster-how ya been? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Faya]

Yanni!!........ :shock: ............ :lol: ...............ahhh.....believe it or not.....but i actually like SOME of his OLD stuff.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

it wasn't as ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.............. :wink: :lol:

[Todd]

As far as this thread, I am the one who listed
her as SU MENG, mainly because all of her Youtube vids
are labeled as such.

I apologize for the mistake. Much respect to her.

An interesting thread here. Usually, im not thrilled to see
Chris coming, cause who knows what could happen, but
it was nice to hear him talk about Meng.

He's right, she's miles above Deniz.

I mean wow, how could anybody miss such a humongous difference
in class.
But then again, Libre thought the Flight of the Bumble bee guy was
for real, so there you have it. :)

What i really dont get , is this "unless you think you can be better
than so and so, give it up, and be a lawyer" crap that Libre
is talking.
Now that my friend, is really just too sad, and downright
unintelligent. Nobody ever got
anywhere thinking that way. Except maybe playing to an
empty lot through an amp. :lol:

I dont know about you guys, but i dont play the guitar to be
Better than anyone, or to attempt to "Surpass" anyone.
I play cause i love to play. And you will find the best in the world
play, for that same reason. As the great Parkening says, "true success
is only measured against one's own potential"

Guitarists and musicians in general, lets try our best to lose
that awful, degrating, competitive frame of mind.
Thats not what its about. Its about loving music.

[racer_x]

I just watched that video of Su playing the 24th caprice and was blown away.
I used to have a CD with all 24 caprices on CG (Elliot Fisk maybe?) but it was pretty awful sounding to me. Kudos to Su

[WillBee]

What does this mean? It means, simply, that watching Azabagic is a humbling experience, and it means that unless you think you're going to surpass him - which I doubt but it's not impossible - then maybe you should think about an alternate career.
Why do I say it? I say it because it is vitally important for young people to understand what they are up against before comitting the best years of their education to such a long shot.

?

That's tremendous advice, really. Let me add to all you would be chemists out there - quit now! you'll never win the nobel prize...an aspiring journalist? - forget it, you're no bob woodward...thinking about architecture? - I.M. Pei (and george costanza) is way out of your league!


most of the young guitar students won't reach the international stage, but perhaps they will settle into very personally fulfilling lives teaching at a more local level. they may not have the income of an investment banker, but different people have different needs/wants in that regard.

[ykabban]

To clear up the thing about "giving it up" in my first post, I was thinking about one of my friends who truly believed he would be a concertist, only to have his hopes and dreams dashed. It was truly disgusting to watch it unfold.

I would never tell anyone to give up playing, I play almost everyday. However, too many hacks out there paying off student loans for their music degree with music nowhere in the equation.

News flash for those who think otherwise....Meng Su/Su Meng could open up a barrel of fortified ass whup and pour it all over Azabagic. I've given up on pointing out Libre's delusions. Believing Azabagic outclasses Meng is not an opinion, it's a delusion.

[GSI Fan]

Guitarists and musicians in general, lets try our best to lose
that awful, degrating, competitive frame of mind.
Thats not what its about. Its about loving music.
Unfortunately LIFE and PAYING the BILLS is about competition at every level - that includes international comps and local teaching (as WillBee pointed out). Guitarists and musicians find that out soon enough – as do all professions. Unless you’re content with mediocrity (which is fine), you MUST survey the competition and set your sights accordingly! It’s that simple, Todd. Well, unless, as I stated earlier; you’re content with mediocrity.

In any event, I tend to see BOTH sides of the argument. Marc offers a useful point of view and so do those who argue “don’t give up”. I would tend to believe that it’s the individual who has to HONESTLY evaluate their own chances in whatever they do and decide from there. We all make our choices and we all have to live with them. And, sometimes those of us who make wise choices bail out those who make poor choices!!! That’s the “between the lines” part of what Marc has to offer – IMHO.

[ChrisAM86]

She probably cares.... Anyway, I'm not sure what naming a challenging piece has to do with getting her name wrong (a coherent flow of ideas is always fun), but Williams has recorded the 24th Caprice. The Handel harpsichord suite that Russell recorded, while not as obviously flamboyant, would be just as hard to play due to the amount of counterpoint.

Williams' rendition is garbage, he slows it down and changes the structure of the piece so much that you can't even consider it a Paganini caprice. And trying to compare a Paganini caprice to that Handel suite is ridiculous, the counter-point isn't what makes that caprice difficult, it's the difficult fingerings and virtuosic speed that make it one of the hardest pieces in music. The fact is that the old school of guitar players are nowhere near the technical ability of those that are now coming into the fray.

[Dave Tate]

I dont know about you guys, but i dont play the guitar to be
Better than anyone, or to attempt to "Surpass" anyone.
I play cause i love to play. And you will find the best in the world
play, for that same reason. As the great Parkening says, "true success
is only measured against one's own potential"

Guitarists and musicians in general, lets try our best to lose
that awful, degrating, competitive frame of mind.
Thats not what its about. Its about loving music.

Hear hear!

[nylon6]

She probably cares.... Anyway, I'm not sure what naming a challenging piece has to do with getting her name wrong (a coherent flow of ideas is always fun), but Williams has recorded the 24th Caprice. The Handel harpsichord suite that Russell recorded, while not as obviously flamboyant, would be just as hard to play due to the amount of counterpoint.

Williams' rendition is garbage, he slows it down and changes the structure of the piece so much that you can't even consider it a Paganini caprice. And trying to compare a Paganini caprice to that Handel suite is ridiculous, the counter-point isn't what makes that caprice difficult, it's the difficult fingerings and virtuosic speed that make it one of the hardest pieces in music. The fact is that the old school of guitar players are nowhere near the technical ability of those that are now coming into the fray.

You didn't ask if they were good...just if any of those made recordings! And I didn't imply they were. I don't think Williams' is that great. For my money, none compare to Antonio de Innocentis' renditions. He sent me a copy of all 24 recorded in concert--much faster and more articulate than Fisk or Su. Don't bother embarking on a Fisk rant if you don't like him.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth--I made no mention of counterpoint in Paganini--virtuosity exists on many levels. Besides, there are contemporary pieces that make the 24th Caprice look like a Sor Etude as far as speed, difficult fingerings, and overall complexity go.

[Faya]

Guitarists and musicians in general, lets try our best to lose
that awful, degrating, competitive frame of mind.
Thats not what its about. Its about loving music.

JEEZZZZ.............i've been saying that on this Forum since i first joined 3 years ago!! :shock: ....................but yet no-one seemed to hear me :roll: :wink:

[brian richardson]

i heard ya brother faya 8)

[ChrisAM86]

She probably cares.... Anyway, I'm not sure what naming a challenging piece has to do with getting her name wrong (a coherent flow of ideas is always fun), but Williams has recorded the 24th Caprice. The Handel harpsichord suite that Russell recorded, while not as obviously flamboyant, would be just as hard to play due to the amount of counterpoint.

Williams' rendition is garbage, he slows it down and changes the structure of the piece so much that you can't even consider it a Paganini caprice. And trying to compare a Paganini caprice to that Handel suite is ridiculous, the counter-point isn't what makes that caprice difficult, it's the difficult fingerings and virtuosic speed that make it one of the hardest pieces in music. The fact is that the old school of guitar players are nowhere near the technical ability of those that are now coming into the fray.

You didn't ask if they were good...just if any of those made recordings! And I didn't imply they were. I don't think Williams' is that great. For my money, none compare to Antonio de Inocentis' renditions. He sent me a copy of all 24 recorded in concert--much faster and more articulate than Fisk or Su. Don't bother embarking on a Fisk rant if you don't like him.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth--I made no mention of counterpoint in Paganini--virtuosity exists on many levels. Besides, there are contemporary pieces that make the 24th Caprice look like a Sor Etude as far as speed, difficult fingerings, and overall complexity go.

Then why would you even mention it if you don't like it? You knew what I was implying when I asked you to list their renditions of pieces that are on that level, and you obviously understood my implication because you listed the Handel suite which you believe is actually more difficult than the Paganini caprice. I've never even heard the name Antonio de Inocentis, it would be nice if you uploaded a clip of his rendition of the 24th caprice for us all to hear.

[Faya]

i heard ya brother faya 8)

Thanks Bro !!! 8)

[nylon6]

I've never even heard the name Antonio de Inocentis, it would be nice if you uploaded a clip of his rendition of the 24th caprice for us all to hear.

Here's a link to Innocentis' bio:

http://www.arcady.org/Arcady_Guest_Artists/Antonio_De_Innocentis_bio.htm

I don't really want to share something so rare and sent to me as a special gift. I'm through with this thread.

[ChrisAM86]

I've never even heard the name Antonio de Inocentis, it would be nice if you uploaded a clip of his rendition of the 24th caprice for us all to hear.

Here's a link to Innocentis' bio:

http://www.arcady.org/Arcady_Guest_Artists/Antonio_De_Innocentis_bio.htm

I don't really want to share something so rare and sent to me as a special gift. I'm through with this thread.

So what you're basically saying is that you don't really know him, and heard from a friend/family member/internet source that he plays the caprices better than anyone alive. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Mitch]

So what you're basically saying is that you don't really know him, and heard from a friend/family member/internet source that he plays the caprices better than anyone alive. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Did you even bother to read his post?

"For my money, none compare to Antonio de Innocentis' renditions. He sent me a copy of all 24 recorded in concert--much faster and more articulate than Fisk or Su. "

That's a firsthand account - he never said he heard he was good from someone else.

Even if he had, what is your point? Are you seeking an answer to something or just being provocative? Did I miss the question?

[brian richardson]

Mitch-
don't even bother with this chris member.
he shows up, picks fights, says he's wonderfull
and then goes away when ignored.
just ignore him.

btw-welcome to the forum mitch. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[nylon6]

So what you're basically saying is that you don't really know him, and heard from a friend/family member/internet source that he plays the caprices better than anyone alive. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Did you even bother to read his post?

"For my money, none compare to Antonio de Innocentis' renditions. He sent me a copy of all 24 recorded in concert--much faster and more articulate than Fisk or Su. "

That's a firsthand account - he never said he heard he was good from someone else.

Even if he had, what is your point? Are you seeking an answer to something or just being provocative? Did I miss the question?

Mitch,

You seem resonably sane, so I'll respond to you! I know Antonio from a distance (he lives in Italy). I purchased several CDs directly from him and developed an e-mail friendship. One day, as a surprise, he sent me this incredible Paganini disc as a gesture of kindness and generosity. It's not meant for commercial release--he assembled the best performances of the Caprices from 2-3 concerts for his own use--that's why I hesitate to post any of it.

[Moderato]

Azabagic is a great player. I hadn't heard of him until recently either.

Su Meng is also a great player. Regarding the 24th caprice, I have to say that technically it is very impressive, but it ends there. I have no desire to learn that piece and it does nothing for me emotionally. I'm sure if I worked on that piece I could get it eventually, it would probably take years, but I'd rather be playing or doing something else.

The hard thing about playing the guitar isn't technique, it's putting emotion into your playing. Technique can easily be solved, even if you have no talent. For example this player has invented a ground breaking device which will make studying techinque obsolete:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbaAsaNQ4Hs

[GSI Fan]

Bri...

Ya' left out a couple minor facts about our buddy Chris. He practices 10+ hours a day and plans to turn the CG upside down with his talent. But...he still hasn't developed an accute reference tone for tuning his guitar. Which, btw, is the best of the best guitars ever made. Although no one ever heard of the luthier. He likes to flame as you mention. And, anyone that honestly states a fact on this forum gets accused of "being anything they want to be". But, in his defense...he's a very tactful fellow...ooops, I meant tacky fellow...my mistake. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yo Chris...show us your stuff...ya' talk the talk...can ya' back it up?

[GSI Fan]

Mod...

I just watched that youtube vid. I laughed my arsssss off!!! Thanks :lol:

[math]

Su Meng is a world class player, but I think Denis is better.

[brian richardson]

Moderato-that video just made my day.
thanks man.

[Faya]

looks like he's useing one of those E-Bow things :lol: ..........i didn't know they worked with nylon strings........... :shock:

Thanks fer the link Moderato!!

[Boyscout]

looks like he's useing one of those E-Bow things :lol: ..........i didn't know they worked with nylon strings........... :shock:

Thanks fer the link Moderato!!

E bows don't work on nylon strings. They use a magnet system to simulate vibrations from metal strings. That guy is using a nice little fan that you can get at your local dollar store.

:D :shock:

With Reguards to Azabagic: There's a vid on you tube of him playing the barrios tremolo piece (Una Limosna para el amor de dios). It's great! Thanks for the link to the catedral vid.

[nylon6]

As I recall, Paul Gilbert attached a pick to an electric drill! This video with the fan is a variation on the stunt.

[gman]

To whomever cares,
I've seen Antonio Innocentis' play live and he's the real deal, excellent tone, dynamics and a great repertoire. As good as anyone out there including our esteemed member ChrisAM86....


Mike

[Moderato]

I'm glad you guys got a laugh out of that video, I know I did! LOL :lol:


edit - Although I was joking around in my previous post I was somewhat serious about the emotion point. Of course good techique is required, but to tell you the truth I get more pleasure listening to a simple but beautiful piece then I do listening to some technical wizardry of over engineered composition. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy a technically complicated piece but if it doesn't have somekind of feeling to it, then it just loses my interest.

[Faya]

looks like he's useing one of those E-Bow things :lol: ..........i didn't know they worked with nylon strings........... :shock:

Thanks fer the link Moderato!!

E bows don't work on nylon strings. They use a magnet system to simulate vibrations from metal strings. That guy is using a nice little fan that you can get at your local dollar store.

:D :shock:

With Reguards to Azabagic: There's a vid on you tube of him playing the barrios tremolo piece (Una Limosna para el amor de dios). It's great! Thanks for the link to the catedral vid.

Aaaahhhhhh Yesss..............i didn't think so......... :lol:
Thanks Boyscout!! :wink:

[Libre]

As the great Parkening says, "true success
is only measured against one's own potential"


That's exactly what a Bowery Bum told me the other day, from the gutter. GOD BLESS HIM! What a wonderful attitude, for a homeless, destitute wino, living on a cardboard box, dressed in Hefty bags and duct tape.

And good for "the great Parkening". He can afford to make such statements.

Of course, one's own potential has no way of being known at all. Your potential is whatever you say it is. Who is going to argue with you? Your potential is what you didn't do in life but could have. Who knows what that is, if it never happened? It's in your mind.

I don't care what you do with your life - it's your life. You want to spend your college education on guitar, sculpting, painting, whatever you want, have a ball.

And it's not a matter of WHO you surpass or don't, really. The several greats are great in their own right. It's the thousands and tens of thousands that will never approach greatness that are trying to surpass anyone.

[GSI Fan]

You want to spend your college education on guitar, sculpting, painting, whatever you want, have a ball.

Sentence fragment Marc. Here's the rest...

..."just don't look to me to bail your ass out if it blows up in your face!"

[Libre]

It amuses me how predictable the usual cast of characters is, seizing an opportunity to launch a personal attack against me, turning a discussion about a video of a classical guitar performance into a platform from which to hurl their pitiful, meaningless epithets.
These befuddled clowns are so confused, they equate a preference for a particular player over another, or one piece of music over another, with a lack of intelligence. It's evident to me whose intelligence is really called into question.

To those that are opposed to the advice to the "young bucks" - take it or leave it, but understand it is offered with the best of intentions. Obviously I am disinterested in your choice of careers. I guess young bucks wouldn't be young bucks if they didn't make rash choices.

Hey, don't worry about it - like the great man said, you can only measure success by comparing it to your potential.

Plus, we're all meat once we're dead, so what's the difference? Whether you're a chemist, an accountant, a lawyer, a waiter, a shoe shiner, or a Bowery bum - you're only as successful as you feel. Go for the gusto, that's the ticket. Besides, if you can't get a concert or recording career, you can always teach CG at a university. I haven't checked the classifieds lately, but I expect there are any number of openings, just ready and waiting for you.

[racer_x]

There are way too many kids out there with delusions of grandeur so I think the advice was good for those morons. However, I think most people have their heads on straight enough and don't think they will be the next Tarrega.

Never stop dreaming << John Lennon

Get a real job/career << most parents

I'm still doing both all the time it seems.

[ykabban]

There are way too many kids out there with delusions of grandeur so I think the advice was good for those morons.

Ya hear that Marc.....

[ChrisAM86]

There are way too many kids out there with delusions of grandeur so I think the advice was good for those morons. However, I think most people have their heads on straight enough and don't think they will be the next Tarrega.

Never stop dreaming << John Lennon

Get a real job/career << most parents

I'm still doing both all the time it seems.

if the goal was to be the next Tarrega i'd cut off my fingernails and jump back 100 years in guitar technique.

[ykabban]

:lol:
Chris, I've just got to hear you play man.

[Boyscout]

if the goal was to be the next Tarrega i'd cut off my fingernails and jump back 100 years in guitar technique.

He only played with out nails for the last 10 or so years of his life (or something like that).

I understand your want, and of course the need, to be part of the "next generation" of guitarists. Guitarists with technical skill way beyond what we consider great now. this is good, and because you're dedicated to that, you will probably achieve it. However, try not to dismiss everything that was done before. Keep in mind that most of the reason anyone today plays classical guitar because of segovia. The modern school of technique we have currently was estabilished, for the most part, by tarrega. Try not to dismiss everything that attributes to your ability to develop into that next generation player. You're probably not dismissing those great, historical guitar figures, but the above was just something I wanted to say. Respond to it if you want; disagree if you please. But know that i'm not particularly interested in some sort of debate. This thread is about azabagic (or it was).

Chris, seriously, I would love to hear you play. I'm not trying to poke fun, or call you out or anything like that. I really just enjoy listening to all kinds of recordings. You on myspace music or anything of the like? Recording plans in the future? Out of curiousity, who do you study with (if you feel comfortable saying on here)?

[ChrisAM86]

if the goal was to be the next Tarrega i'd cut off my fingernails and jump back 100 years in guitar technique.

He only played with out nails for the last 10 or so years of his life (or something like that).

I understand your want, and of course the need, to be part of the "next generation" of guitarists. Guitarists with technical skill way beyond what we consider great now. this is good, and because you're dedicated to that, you will probably achieve it. However, try not to dismiss everything that was done before. Keep in mind that most of the reason anyone today plays classical guitar because of segovia. The modern school of technique we have currently was estabilished, for the most part, by tarrega. Try not to dismiss everything that attributes to your ability to develop into that next generation player. You're probably not dismissing those great, historical guitar figures, but the above was just something I wanted to say. Respond to it if you want; disagree if you please. But know that i'm not particularly interested in some sort of debate. This thread is about azabagic (or it was).

Chris, seriously, I would love to hear you play. I'm not trying to poke fun, or call you out or anything like that. I really just enjoy listening to all kinds of recordings. You on myspace music or anything of the like? Recording plans in the future? Out of curiousity, who do you study with (if you feel comfortable saying on here)?

I'm not dismissing Tarrega at all, I believe he was vital in bringing the classical guitar to the forefront of the classical world. I was merely pointing that guitar technique has advanced far beyond him.

The reason I don't post recordings is because I have no means of recording anything. I will be doing a professional recording in November that I'll be uploading to my webspace for a free download though, it's going to be mostly Bach and Villa-Lobos, with maybe some Paganini if I finish it in time.

[Jubilee Valence]

"...If anyone would like to criticize me for these harsh words towards ChrisAM86, I'll be open to it...."OK......I'm in.....heh heh heh...

"WHAT TOOK YA' SO LONG!!??"

:wink:

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Jubilee Valence]

...........I dont know about you guys, but i dont play the guitar to be
Better than anyone, or to attempt to "Surpass" anyone.
I play cause i love to play. And you will find the best in the world
play, for that same reason. As the great Parkening says, "true success
is only measured against one's own potential"

Guitarists and musicians in general, lets try our best to lose
that awful, degrating, competitive frame of mind.
Thats not what its about. Its about loving music....from "Anger Management Studios".....

huh???......'nails......guitars.....woodsheddin'.. .???

...pretty soon we'll have ya' diggin': :arrow: "The real Masters Of Flamenco"....or should I say: :arrow: "ALL..." :mrgreen:

"It's hard to be humble...."

...but we're "gettin' there!" ;)

Jubi
_______________

Marc-O, GREAT THREAD!!...'look at it "this way..."---when you start a thread----it TAKES OFF!!!! :mrgreen:

(who the heck started that....SSSHHH!!..."you know who" thread?? Remember, the one where--sooner or later---EVERYBODY admitted lovin' HENDR---OOOPPSS!!!??? :oops: )

Well, anyway---your threads "go places"!!!...Always a great read!

;)

[racer_x]

So Chris is going to be recording the typical CG stuff that has been recorded for by every other Tom, Dick & Harry for the past 3/4 century??

Talk about your everyday, run of the mill, status quo CG CD.

Yea Chris, you are really showing how far techique has come by recording such new artist. :P :?:

I cannot wait to hear your release on myspace because I am dying to hear these new amazing techniques you speak of. I mean if they make Tarrega look like an amateur I am going to be blown away. Keep us posted pls.

[Boyscout]

I'm not dismissing Tarrega at all, I believe he was vital in bringing the classical guitar to the forefront of the classical world. I was merely pointing that guitar technique has advanced far beyond him.

The reason I don't post recordings is because I have no means of recording anything. I will be doing a professional recording in November that I'll be uploading to my webspace for a free download though, it's going to be mostly Bach and Villa-Lobos, with maybe some Paganini if I finish it in time.

Agreed. A lot of modern thought and use of medical technology has gone into analyzing how we move. We have a better understanding today, and a better idea of how to move more effectively and effeciently.

I look forword to the recordings!

[thraex]

Racer:

You can go back and play Rosita (Tarrega) with a finer technique and commitment today, or any of the over recorded pieces of guitar music, and still be a true addition to the CG world.
I have done the mistake in my repertoire of always searching deeper for unknown or under played repertoire, specially, deemed impossible to play, to prove something (?) to others. But until recently, with a new perpective given to me by prof.Bungarten I am starting to understand what i dismissed before, exactly that music must be approached with humbleness, no matter its superfitial simplicity, then we can enjoy and search for our interpretation of it.

I used most of this year playing Tarrega preludios and Sor simple etudes, and they were harder for me than Ginastera, Bach, Britten etc that I had done before. Simply because my approach was more serious, and that seriousness demands attention to everything even in 2 notes played on a single string, or a chord change in a Tarrega prelude.

Then I wonder, why not having the new masters record everything again, most of it is badly recorded, anyway. My teacher is doing that, delving more and more and the more traditional repertoire, to set the record straight! I believe he does set it!
Why should not others try and do it?

I still like going to more obscure repertoire, that is my taste and path;
but I respect if someone goes the difficult path of playing the usual, but filtering thru their musianship and time when we live.

[racer_x]

Agreed, but just because it is new does not mean it's better than.

That was the vibe I was getting from Chris. Yet this is all subjective anyway.

Nobody should really care how someone plays the guitar, they should only care about the sound they produce with it.

We will have to wait and hear these amazing recordings by the wonderkid and judge them ourselves.

peace out :wink:

[ChrisAM86]

So Chris is going to be recording the typical CG stuff that has been recorded for by every other Tom, Dick & Harry for the past 3/4 century??

Talk about your everyday, run of the mill, status quo CG CD.

Yea Chris, you are really showing how far techique has come by recording such new artist. :P :?:

I cannot wait to hear your release on myspace because I am dying to hear these new amazing techniques you speak of. I mean if they make Tarrega look like an amateur I am going to be blown away. Keep us posted pls.

Actually, you'll find that it's rare to see a recording of Bach's 3rd violin partita played in true violin form, as most guitar players choose to use the lute versions of the different movements, so the style in which I'm playing it is somewhat innovative. I am working on new repertoire that hasn't ever been done on guitar before, but it won't be done in time for when I want to record (that is if it even ends up coming out correctly). It would be idiotic of me to say that I'm going to record new rep. if I don't even know how it will sound yet.

The idea isn't to play unknown repertoire just to seperate yourself from the masses, it's to play music that you find a connection to. Look not only towards the guitar for inspiration, but look towards all instruments for music that you enjoy. Unfortunately, the we haven't been blessed with an outstanding history of guitar music, and only in the past 60 or so years have we even been given music by non-guitarist composers. Our options are to either stick with the old repertoire, or blaze a new path. For example, say you listen to Bach's 3rd English suite, and you say to yourself, "I can imagine that being played on 2 guitars, but I've never heard of anyone even trying it." then you should transcribe it yourself. Once you discover that almost all the past music written by the great composers is absolute music, you'll find a new world of music that can be brought to our versatile instrument.

[GSI Fan]

ChrisAM86...

Hey, back in my day we had a lot of sales people that “talked”, but never really produced. We had a nickname for them…”Mr. Futures”. They always had enormous plans, goals and ideas. Their results were always a mere heartbeat away according to them. They constantly used phases like…”when I” and “you’ll see” and “if”. They always had their own revolutionary ideas for improving or changing the time honored and proven techniques that had made many of us already successful veterans very wealthy. In the end, they all ended up producing ZIP and found new careers to use their canned lines of BS until the honeymoon was over once again. Chris, you sound a lot like all the failures and blowhards I run into over my working career. I’m really looking forward to what you have to offer, Mr. Futures. :roll:

[ChrisAM86]

ChrisAM86...

Hey, back in my day we had a lot of sales people that “talked”, but never really produced. We had a nickname for them…”Mr. Futures”. They always had enormous plans, goals and ideas. Their results were always a mere heartbeat away according to them. They constantly used phases like…”when I” and “you’ll see” and “if”. They always had their own revolutionary ideas for improving or changing the time honored and proven techniques that had made many of us already successful veterans very wealthy. In the end, they all ended up producing ZIP and found new careers to use their canned lines of BS until the honeymoon was over once again. Chris, you sound a lot like all the failures and blowhards I run into over my working career. I’m really looking forward to what you have to offer, Mr. Futures. :roll:

Once again, because you have no knowledge of musical history/theory/anything you try to compare it to your profession. The reason this fails to work is because you don't even know what you're trying to compare. Will you please explain to me how a musician working to perfect his technique has anything to do with a failed entrepeneur? A classical musician that practices until his technique is extraordinary and can play things that noone else can will always be put up on a pedestal above others. However, an entrepeneur with a great idea can try it out, fail and never even be heard of again. I understand that your knowledge of music is limited because you are a collector and not a player, but the next time you try to make another idiotic comparison, please think before posting. Thanks for trying though.

[dennis]

Chris, I think you your ideas about certain pieces of music transcending the instrument are very valid. There are pieces, mostly by the Impressionists, Catalan and French (I know, mostly French) that I would have never imagined on guitar when I first started playing, but when you hear these pieces over time, eventually you think that it could work on your instrument, take the theme, then add as appropriate. I would sincerely like to hear what you create, I am trying to work on a simple bunch of piano pieces by Mompou right now, but they would sound good on guitar I think. Best of luck & cheers!

[GSI Fan]

ChrisAM86...

Hey, back in my day we had a lot of sales people that “talked”, but never really produced. We had a nickname for them…”Mr. Futures”. They always had enormous plans, goals and ideas. Their results were always a mere heartbeat away according to them. They constantly used phases like…”when I” and “you’ll see” and “if”. They always had their own revolutionary ideas for improving or changing the time honored and proven techniques that had made many of us already successful veterans very wealthy. In the end, they all ended up producing ZIP and found new careers to use their canned lines of BS until the honeymoon was over once again. Chris, you sound a lot like all the failures and blowhards I run into over my working career. I’m really looking forward to what you have to offer, Mr. Futures. :roll:

Once again, because you have no knowledge of musical history/theory/anything you try to compare it to your profession. The reason this fails to work is because you don't even know what you're trying to compare. Will you please explain to me how a musician working to perfect his technique has anything to do with a failed entrepeneur? A classical musician that practices until his technique is extraordinary and can play things that noone else can will always be put up on a pedestal above others. However, an entrepeneur with a great idea can try it out, fail and never even be heard of again. I understand that your knowledge of music is limited because you are a collector and not a player, but the next time you try to make another idiotic comparison, please think before posting. Thanks for trying though.
Damn Kid, you are thick aren’t you???

I made no attempt to compare my profession, or any other, to classical guitar, its history or its theory. The comparison was to PEOPLE. It makes no difference what their walk of life might be. Read it over again and ignore the fact I used the analogy of any specific profession. The message was; toot your horn to your hearts’ content, but until you’ve demonstrated that your posturing is more than idol words, you’re no different than any other wannabe blowhard that’s impressed by their own unfulfilled dreams. The stream of **** coming out of your pie-hole, in this case, your keyboard, is a mirror image of words I’ve listened to over and over again from other people whose footsteps you’re walking in – albeit a difference vocational choice.

Once again, you’ve replaced “practice” with “performance”. You’re going “do” something rather than having “done” anything. Remember this; those who “can”; “do”. Those who “cannot” do; “talk” about what they’re going to do. Up till now all we’ve ever read from you, aside from vile remarks, is the wonderful things you’re “going to do”. When asked to “do”; as in produce some work of your own, you’ve replied with “excuses” why you can’t.

You have an obvious lack of real world knowledge too. The entrepreneur that has the courage to “try” (actually attempt to “do”) and fails has at least staked more than words on their vision. Yes, it is possible that they fail and it’s also possible never to hear from them again. That’s no different than any other endeavor and a thin example to base your notion of achieving the pedestal dream you want us to believe you’re heading to.

Chris, my limited knowledge of music has absolutely ZERO to do with my knowledge and understanding of people. Whether I collect guitars or play them or play them well has nothing to do with the fact that I have a keen awareness of human nature and can separate the “can do” people from the “can talk” people. So far you’ve provide no viable reason to lump you into the “can do” category. I’d have to say; get your ass out there and “do” something instead of “talking” about what you’re going to do here.

A final thought. I would estimate that 99.99% of the successful people I’ve met pretty much “did” what they needed to do to be successful and never said much, if anything, about what it was they were going to do. Most everyone I met that failed didn’t really “do” anything other than shoot off their mouth about what they “planned” to do and how everyone would bow at their feet when they did it – like you.

[dennis]

Fan,
No need to flame the guy, he made some points, you did too, that is fine. The guy has some ideas. I think some are good, but you can't always have people putting stuff out there, there are a number of hurdles too. Then again, he should not jump on your case either, it's not fair.

I've said it before, there are very few people that play what we play, and enjoy it, the last thing we should ever do is isolate ourselves, especially in this scenario. Think about it, you would (or should not) spout this to someone you are having a beer with! I mean, that is not a good thing to do!!! There is a great value to what we play, and THERE ARE VERY FEW THAT CAN DO THIS!!!!!!

So, maybe we should be kind.

BTW - fan, your guitar kicks serious ass, if I come to Chicago, let's have a beer.

[ChrisAM86]

ChrisAM86...

Hey, back in my day we had a lot of sales people that “talked”, but never really produced. We had a nickname for them…”Mr. Futures”. They always had enormous plans, goals and ideas. Their results were always a mere heartbeat away according to them. They constantly used phases like…”when I” and “you’ll see” and “if”. They always had their own revolutionary ideas for improving or changing the time honored and proven techniques that had made many of us already successful veterans very wealthy. In the end, they all ended up producing ZIP and found new careers to use their canned lines of BS until the honeymoon was over once again. Chris, you sound a lot like all the failures and blowhards I run into over my working career. I’m really looking forward to what you have to offer, Mr. Futures. :roll:

Once again, because you have no knowledge of musical history/theory/anything you try to compare it to your profession. The reason this fails to work is because you don't even know what you're trying to compare. Will you please explain to me how a musician working to perfect his technique has anything to do with a failed entrepeneur? A classical musician that practices until his technique is extraordinary and can play things that noone else can will always be put up on a pedestal above others. However, an entrepeneur with a great idea can try it out, fail and never even be heard of again. I understand that your knowledge of music is limited because you are a collector and not a player, but the next time you try to make another idiotic comparison, please think before posting. Thanks for trying though.
Damn Kid, you are thick aren’t you???

I made no attempt to compare my profession, or any other, to classical guitar, its history or its theory. The comparison was to PEOPLE. It makes no difference what their walk of life might be. Read it over again and ignore the fact I used the analogy of any specific profession. The message was; toot your horn to your hearts’ content, but until you’ve demonstrated that your posturing is more than idol words, you’re no different than any other wannabe blowhard that’s impressed by their own unfulfilled dreams. The stream of s**t coming out of your pie-hole, in this case, your keyboard, is a mirror image of words I’ve listened to over and over again from other people whose footsteps you’re walking in – albeit a difference vocational choice.

Once again, you’ve replaced “practice” with “performance”. You’re going “do” something rather than having “done” anything. Remember this; those who “can”; “do”. Those who “cannot” do; “talk” about what they’re going to do. Up till now all we’ve ever read from you, aside from vile remarks, is the wonderful things you’re “going to do”. When asked to “do”; as in produce some work of your own, you’ve replied with “excuses” why you can’t.

You have an obvious lack of real world knowledge too. The entrepreneur that has the courage to “try” (actually attempt to “do”) and fails has at least staked more than words on their vision. Yes, it is possible that they fail and it’s also possible never to hear from them again. That’s no different than any other endeavor and a thin example to base your notion of achieving the pedestal dream you want us to believe you’re heading to.

Chris, my limited knowledge of music has absolutely ZERO to do with my knowledge and understanding of people. Whether I collect guitars or play them or play them well has nothing to do with the fact that I have a keen awareness of human nature and can separate the “can do” people from the “can talk” people. So far you’ve provide no viable reason to lump you into the “can do” category. I’d have to say; get your a** out there and “do” something instead of “talking” about what you’re going to do here.

A final thought. I would estimate that 99.99% of the successful people I’ve met pretty much “did” what they needed to do to be successful and never said much, if anything, about what it was they were going to do. Most everyone I met that failed didn’t really “do” anything other than shoot off their mouth about what they “planned” to do and how everyone would bow at their feet when they did it – like you.

Alright, you must be excluding the fact that I AM working on my technique and new repertoire for over 6-8 hours a day, and ignoring the fact that I stated that I AM tinkering around with new rep. that's never been attempted for the guitar before, and completely ignored that I said that I'm making a recording in November. Are your reading comprehension skills really that low? I said that I have no means of recording anything at home, and I don't have the money to buy the kind of equipment needed to do so. I have barely enough money to live off of, I'm not going to go buy recording equipment just to prove something to a moron like yourself.

And where have I been tooting my own horn? I've never said I was better than anyone else, you're just putting words in my mouth. Someone made a thread about their practice schedule and asked for ideas, so I gave them mine. I made a thread about a couple pieces I was working on, and had a discussion about what my program might be. Someone made a thread about Denis Azabagic, and then claimed he was better than Meng Su, so I argued differently. Do you see me saying things like, "People better watch out for me, I'm going to be the best guitar player ever"? No, because I have ideas that I'm working on in practice. I never said that I've accomplished anything yet, you're just putting words in my mouth. Can you even comprehend the amount of work that it takes to put a piece of music together? There's a reason that I'm waiting until November to record anything.

And finally, you're wrong once again with your wild comparisons of your career to a career in music. Everyone that's worked hard on an instrument knows that the way you play when you practice is the way you play on stage. So if I put in the work required to do the music I want correctly when I'm practicing, the same result will happen when I get on stage and play the music. That is why every second of work isn't wasted. Now, let's compare this to someone spending all their time preparing a product for the market. They could work on it for ten years and try and sell it, and never even sell a copy, go broke and live in a gutter for the rest of their lives. If I spend the next year of my life working on Bach's violin sonatas and partitas, and I finish them, I will have an audience to perform to, and I will be able to record it and sell it to a decent number of people. Also, being able to perform these difficult works in a new way will show that I'm a very competent performer, and I'll be able to garner enough students through my reputation to make a living.

I know it's difficult for you to accept the fact that you aren't as smart as a college student, and I'm sure it hurts your feelings. But please, for your own sake, give up.

[Dave Tate]

Alright, STOP! Just STOP FIGHTING!

It's just an internet forum, folks. If someone says something you disagree with, or even offends you, you're not obligated to write a retaliation and defend your honor. Just ignore it and it's over, 10 pages before I'd ever have to jump in.

Thanks,
Dave

[Dave Olsson]

I'd like to add a thought here. I've had the opportunity to observe at close quarters, in performance, master classes and private conversation, some of the very finest guitarists working today. These are people whose names I'm sure are familiar to everyone reading this forum. I've even had the good fortune of working privately with a couple of them for several hours. I know many of you have had the same privilege. The one thing I can say about all of them is that regardless of how inane the question they're asked, how poor the playing they hear or how naive the participants, these people are invariably and unfailingly polite and respectful. Now, if people at this level of ability can manage to remain cordial and civil under such circumstances, then it should certainly be within the capacity of all of us to do the same in this context.
I love reading the discussions about well known performers and repertoire and hearing other guitar enthusiast's thoughts on such matters. I really like the wide divergence of opinions and the disputes that arise as a result. They are the most interesting and informative of all. I like them best, however, when they're conducted in a spirit of respectful, good-natured camaraderie. We can't all play or think like world class virtuosos, but we could all try to carry ourselves that way. In a violent, contentious world, that may be more important than how well we play.

[nylon6]

Nicely stated. I'm guilty of firing back unnecessary comments from time to time, but when I'm accused of something by people who've made idiotic statements, it's terribly difficult to take the high road! I shall strive to do better.

BTW, I notice a lot less juvenile behavior on the delcamp guitar forum.

[GSI Fan]

Alright, STOP! Just STOP FIGHTING!

I'd like ta' see ya' make me!!! :twisted: :lol: :wink:

[racer_x]

I was kinda joking around with my posts. I hope I didn't offend anyone here.

Remember, "Opinions are like as_sholes, everyone's got one."
~ Art Blakey

[Dave Tate]

Alright, STOP! Just STOP FIGHTING!

I'd like ta' see ya' make me!!! :twisted: :lol: :wink:

I'm sorry to announce that as of 7/20, GSI Fan is no longer a forum member.

:shock:

JUST KIDDING!! I'd never. Just be nice, people. Or at least try? :wink:

Dave

[GSI Fan]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whewwwwww!!!.....ya' had me going for a second. :wink:

[Todd]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whewwwwww!!!.....ya' had me going for a second. :wink:


Wow, me too! I was like WHAAAAA??? Not GSI!!! Not GSIIIIIIIIII!!!

Glad you're still here man... :lol:

[dennis]

We'll all behave now! (at least 'til the weekend :twisted: )

[Libre]

edit

[GSI Fan]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whewwwwww!!!.....ya' had me going for a second. :wink:


Wow, me too! I was like WHAAAAA??? Not GSI!!! Not GSIIIIIIIIII!!!

Glad you're still here man... :lol:

Thanks Todd!

Man, I lose my job as Chief of Police to that JerryZ fella and then almost get booted from the forum. This ain't been a good month. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Libre]

Fan isn't going anywhere. They'd never kick him off.
What other "collector" are are they going to sell all those guitars to?

Remember, "Opinions are like as_sholes, everyone's got one."
~ Art Blakey

...and everybody thinks that everyone else's stinks.

And hey, so we have a few spirited discussions here. I don't see anything wrong with it. How violent can an internet discussion group really get anyway?

And Dave, since we ARE all in a discussion group, and known to one another - at least by our screen names and also some of our backgrounds, some of our real names, our style of writing, and our personalities, then I DO think that offensive statements need to be answered, and honor defended from time to time. True, some things are best ignored, but sometimes you need to stand up for yourself.
Adds interest to the whole scene, anyway.
I don't like people's feelings hurt, everyone knows that about me, I think, but after all, our only weapons here are our wits and our words.
Poor shroomy.
Poor rdubb.
Poor ChrisAM86 - oh, I guess I'm jumping the gun on that one.

[Dave Tate]

Of course Fanny's not going anywhere...just like him, I was just having fun.

True, "spirited discussions" can be quite a hoot, and certainly add interest to the scene. For most of us regulars here who know each other, at least via this medium, they cause no harm.

However, there are many others who take great offense at 12-page-long slugfests filled with insults, attacks, and sometimes even profanity. It is a turnoff for many, and you may have to just believe me on that.

Of course it can be tough to please everyone, but it's part of my job to keep the peace. So I may have to occasionally remind people to sheath their "weapons", even if they are just words and wit. I hope you understand.

On a lighter note, Fanny and Todd...GOTCHA! :lol:

Dave