Yamashita Chaconne Video

[nylon6]

This may not appeal to all tastes...let the fun begin!

(it's in two parts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AnXehrONCY

[alter Ton]

I'm a fan. Now, if someone could just upload the whole concert...

[daniel711]

Not my cup of tea! He's obviously talented, but he couldn't be more pretentious if he wore a clown's outfit! He is literally "dancing" with the guitar. His LH fingers are flailing around like a wet mop; his style is sloppy, and he gesticulates like he's on some heavy duty anti-psychotic medication!

I think this guy needs to be heard and not seen. I might very well have a totally different impression of his playing if I couldn'd see him. For better or worse, he is the complete antithesis of John Williams, i.e., zero economy of movement!

[Beumont_suite]

Reminds me very much of how a pianist uses body movement to add flair to their performance. Not appealing on the CG IMO.

[nylon6]

I don't think he does it for "flair" or as part of an act--it's just the way he's wired and is an integral part of him. It can definitely be distracting--I saw him 2-3 years ago in SF and had to close my eyes at times, particularly during Bach's 6th Cello Suite and Britten's Nocturnal. He moves around even more these days!
His movements remind me of Glenn Gould's humming--he simply couldn't help it!

BTW, here's his program for that Toronto '84 recital:

Sor - Mozart op. 9
Bach - Chaconne
Takemitsu - Folios
Britten - Nocturnal

intermission

Pictures at an Exhibition

He then played 4 knuckle-breaking encores!

[Dave Tate]

Pictures at an Exhibition? The whole thing? Very cool!

[samwise]

I don't think he does it for "flair" or as part of an act--it's just the way he's wired and is an integral part of him.
Could it be a technique to help get himself into 'the zone'? Regardless, totally enjoyed it.

[ChrisAM86]

although Yamashita is amazing at playing his groundbeaking rep., he doesn't seem to have a certain musical sensitivity. He approaches Bach in the same way he approaches Mussorgsky, and it sounds horrible. Even though he has an amazing vision for guitar rep,, he needs to develop a greater musical sensitivity, so he can become a more well-rounded player.

[nylon6]

Here's his first encore, La Boda de Luis Alonso:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGw5lGhboXQ

[Moderato]

Some of you guys are too critical. This guy plays great and obviously has tons of talent. It might not be my style to go crazy like that either, but why judge when the playing is so good?

[ChrisAM86]

Some of you guys are too critical. This guy plays great and obviously has tons of talent. It might not be my style to go crazy like that either, but why judge when the playing is so good?

Because the playing isn't that good. Look at how many of the runs he completely screws up because he tries to play them too fast. The speed that he's playing the piece is very inconsistent too. If he approached the piece from a different perspective then I'm sure he'd have better results.

[kyop]

Well I guess everyone posting a negative response should include their version of the piece to show how it *really* should be played. It's hard to say too much about it due to the poor sound quality on the video. I can tell that he has a bad Mo haircut and is definitely the Pete Townsend of CG.

Now there was a Tadashi Yamashita that did a mean double Nunchaku kata and could kill you with 1 strike. That would fall into the knuckle breaker category. Art in classical beating.

It's the same type of movement but you're using a leg or arm instead of a finger and your placing it on a nose or solar plexus instead of behind the fret. Very similar though...loose-plant-loose-plant.

Wax on, French Polish off.

[ChrisAM86]

yeah and everyone who thinks that G. W. Bush is a bad president should go run and see if they can do a better job.

[thraex]

If some people enjoys his playing, then great, once I put a few samples of CG to pianist friendsl, and to my astonishment, they liked Yamashita over Galbraith....!!!!
I rather take what I liked from it, he is sensitive in his own right, but he is not subtle, that is for me.

I used to play la Ciaccona at those speeds, cleaner, and now I find it nice just to see how immature I could be! :) today I listened to my own version of 5 years ago, from a competition, funny thing, there is always someone in the audience who coughs badly!...annoying!

[ChrisAM86]

the problem with playing it at that speed is that it completely destroys the mood of the piece. When you start playing runs that fast, you're turning Bach into Paganini. Bach put a lot more effort into his note arrangement, and to hear them be blazed away without a purposeful arrangement just sounds ridiculous.

And please, don't even get me started on Galbraith. His playing could make a ten year old kid with ADHD on crack and methamphetamines fall asleep from boredom.

[ChrisAM86]

whoops, double post

[JerryZ]

whoops, double post

Thanks for the correction. Most of us can't stand one of your posts let alone back to back posts.

[nylon6]

And please, don't even get me started on Galbraith. His playing could make a ten year old kid with ADHD on crack and methamphetamines fall asleep from boredom.

Why even bring up an unrelated idea in the first place? (And manage to make it juvenile in the process...) Start your own "Galbraith Sucks" thread if you feel so compelled.

[thraex]

NC

[PedroO]

... This guy plays great and obviously has tons of talent. It might not be my style to go crazy like that either, but why judge when the playing is so good?

Agree!! If this guy looks like a clown, Juliam Bream is then clown too!! Finally somene is putting some emotions into playing classical guitar. Lack of it is one of the reasons I do not like JW or TK.

[Tomas-Lobos]

NC
Well now! That's a first!! :o :lol:

[daniel711]

Agree!! If this guy looks like a clown, Juliam Bream is then clown too!! Finally somene is putting some emotions into playing classical guitar. Lack of it is one of the reasons I do not like JW or TK.
Hey Todd - Looks like you're being put in the same catagory as John Williams! Insulted?? :lol:

[ChrisAM86]

putting emotion into Bach is fine, but the way Yamashita does it is with no sense of phrasing, timing or musicality. His transcription isn't exactly the greatest either.

[kyop]

yeah and everyone who thinks that G. W. Bush is a bad president should go run and see if they can do a better job.

******

Actually, I wanted to run my dog against him last time. If he won, I was going to divide the Oval Office into a grid like a checkerboard and each square would have a "decision" printed on it like one of those old 8 balls:

Yes...No...Maybe...More Study is Needed...They Are Evil...They Are Good...Bomb Them..Give Them Money...Cut Taxes...Raise Taxes...etc.

Every time my dog took a dump, he would make a decision. I'm positive he would do a better job. And he wouldn't have the balls to get up in front of people after vetoing money for stem cell research and talk about murder and morality after murdering tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of our own troops.

I guess the bottom line is, if you feel really good about the job he's doing, get on over to Iraq and support his clever policies.

Damn! Just when I thought I'd found a place to get away from politics...

[Todd]

Agree!! If this guy looks like a clown, Juliam Bream is then clown too!! Finally somene is putting some emotions into playing classical guitar. Lack of it is one of the reasons I do not like JW or TK.
Hey Todd - Looks like you're being put in the same catagory as John Williams! Insulted?? :lol:

I dont think he meant me, did he?? :shock:

There must be another TK.... I hope..... :lol:

[Tomas-Lobos]

Damn! Just when I thought I'd found a place to get away from politics...
And when they came for me there was no one...
:( :( :( :( :( :(

[Moderato]

putting emotion into Bach is fine, but the way Yamashita does it is with no sense of phrasing, timing or musicality. His transcription isn't exactly the greatest either.I just don't see the point of being so critical. So he's a little bit "different" so what? and he does play well. I'm really looking foward to you posting up some videos. :D

[ChrisAM86]

putting emotion into Bach is fine, but the way Yamashita does it is with no sense of phrasing, timing or musicality. His transcription isn't exactly the greatest either.I just don't see the point of being so critical. So he's a little bit "different" so what? and he does play well. I'm really looking foward to you posting up some videos. :D

when you're playing the greatest piece of music ever written you should take the time to study the phrasing, instead of just blazing through the beautiful passages that make the piece what it is.

[gman]

I have to agree with those that found the interpretation lacking.
The body language and his forced sounding dynamics really turned me off...coarse and rough sounding. Some of the problem is likely due to the quality of the audio recording.

I couldn't even watch all the way through to hear the scale passages, Maybe after a beer or two I'll be more tolerant. Or maybe I'll boot it up and listen without watching the video....

MG

[Section_10]

He plays very schizoid-like, not musical or emotional, easily confusing I guess. It's 'different', i'll agree to that, but compare this to Voorhoorst's Bach. His isn't sounding like a nut cases interepretation yet still different from a midi files'. Enno gives a good example of how you can interepret a piece well and still not be the only way of doing it, yet his skills and signature can be seen clearly. These crazy machines we call guitarists are the same every time they play, they either lack emotion or go crazy like seen in this video. They're not being very sensitive to the music. Chaconne, for instance isn't about crack cocaine. I have no quarrel with his technical ability, so don't start that ole war. But is the technique worth it at this point if it comes out like that?

[thraex]

Section_10

Not usual to see somebody mentioning my former teacher!
Have you heard or seen Enno playing Chaconne?
Or you just point him on base of his Naxos Bach transcriptions CD?
That is a true favourite of mine :), his other Cd's are not so well engineered, I think, specially the all Ponce one..

[Section_10]

no i haven't heard his chaconne, if there is one out there, but his Bach in general is very good, unique but within reason. His Barrios is superb though, I think he has a good head for music, not like most of these clowns teaching at prestigous universities with no talent other than technique. Just started a huge fight by the way.

[MSG]

Well, I just watched the video, and I rank at as one of the best performances of the Chaconne I have ever heard. The only other person I've heard play it just as good was Segovia on an old recording.

The Bach Chaconne that Segovia was going for, in his landmark transcription, was for the violinists. Infact, he said the first time he showcased the piece, it was to show the guitar's capabilities off to violinists, most of whom later said that they disliked the piece on the guitar (probably jealous, because this is still one of the violin's main show pieces). Most of the great violinists play this piece in under 12:20. A minute or more slower, would sound retarded on the guitar. This piece is supposed to be played fast, at the very least, and I have a hard time believing that you can control the tone of a 32nd note played at fast tempos. Segovia's early recordings, before his hands started getting really old, were clocked in at 12:20 as well. All the other recordings from Williams, Parkening, Galbraith (especially Galbraith's slow ass version) are slow and plodding. I can't stand to listen to their performances. Once I've heard the way it was meant to be played, on the violin that is, I need to hear it like that on the guitar: blazing and on fire.

For all it's worth, Yamashita's version is on par with Segovia's and Heifetz's.

[Moderato]

when you're playing the greatest piece of music ever written you should take the time to study the phrasing, instead of just blazing through the beautiful passages that make the piece what it is.I agree with you but on the other hand a performer also has the artistic license to interpret a piece how they choose. Don't worry there are still going to be plenty of traditional authentic Bach players who play the music exactly as Bach wrote it and no one is going to forget that because of an unorthodox interpretation.

[Section_10]

This def. is a violin piece. No doubt. Fisk and Yama, perhaps should have invested in violin training. Guitar is slightly more sensual and intimate of an instrument so it's always odd to listen to someone try to make a vioin out of it. Chaconne works for Guitar! I love it actually, but only when its played like a guitar, not the ego-centric "look how fast i'm playing". I'm just jealous though, seriously thats all.

[MSG]

Hey man, i'm jealous too. It sucks to see someone play like that, and know i'll never get that good.

You are right about the intimacy of the guitar. Even though Fisk can play the 24 Caprices on the guitar, it just doesn't sound right -- especially the 5th. It sounds much better on the violin. The Chaconne, however, definitely works for the guitar. I think it sounds much better on the guitar, when played right, than on the violin.

[parkthetree]

Well I guess everyone posting a negative response should include their version of the piece to show how it *really* should be played.

That's just stupid. You don't have to be able to play the piece to know if it is played well or not. I can point to performances by Parkenning, Segovia, Heifetz, etc, that all are much better for good reason. When you play before an audience, every single listener will be judging your playing regardless of whether they can play it, or have even heard it before. If you don't want to be judged subjectively, stop playing music!

[parkthetree]

The Bach Chaconne that Segovia was going for, in his landmark transcription, was for the violinists. Infact, he said the first time he showcased the piece, it was to show the guitar's capabilities off to violinists, most of whom later said that they disliked the piece on the guitar (probably jealous, because this is still one of the violin's main show pieces). Most of the great violinists play this piece in under 12:20. A minute or more slower, would sound retarded on the guitar. This piece is supposed to be played fast, at the very least, and I have a hard time believing that you can control the tone of a 32nd note played at fast tempos. Segovia's early recordings, before his hands started getting really old, were clocked in at 12:20 as well. All the other recordings from Williams, Parkening, Galbraith (especially Galbraith's slow a** version) are slow and plodding. I can't stand to listen to their performances. Once I've heard the way it was meant to be played, on the violin that is, I need to hear it like that on the guitar: blazing and on fire.

For all it's worth, Yamashita's version is on par with Segovia's and Heifetz's.

The Heifetz recording I have (from iTunes) is 12:46 - but there is another one of him at 12:53, Parkening (From the Artistry) is 13:13, and Segovia's is 13:52 (From The collection, Vol 1 - no idea when it was recorded.), Itzhak Perlman plays it at 15:46 (!). John Williams clocks in at 13:52. Evgeny Kissin tackles it in 14:52, etc, etc, etc, etc.

The Chaconne does not have to blaze, as the differences in these great artists tempi suggests. The Heifetz version sounds fluid and unhurried, event though it is fast, because he plays so legato. The yamashita version,
with no legato used, sounds hurried and pointless. Besides, the Yamashita version is not even close to the version used by Segovia and Parkening, since the phrasing and right hand technique are so different.

Also, you CAN and MUST control the tone of a 32nd note at any tempo. My wife is a violin player, and she said in school that they listened to recordings of Heifetz at extremely slow speeds, and they could hear him actually making fine tuning adjustements to the notes even on scalar passages. I believe that it is that kind of attention to detail and discipline that differentiate good players from great artists.

For what it's worth, I have always admired KY's recording of Pictures at an Exhibition, although I haven't listened to it in a long time.

Just my opinion.

[yamashitafan]

Thanks for posting this video. Obviously, Yamashita is my favorite player although my favorite recording of the Chaconne is by Nicola Hall from her "Virtuoso Transcriptions" album. Yamashita has three different recorded versions of the Chaconne including a recent cd of the complete sonatas and partitas and the same from 15 years ago on the Crown Classics label.

[PedroO]

.... Not usual to see somebody mentioning my former teacher!....
Hey: I just noticed you moved from Check to Swisserland? Any special reason?

[thraex]

No?
CH = Switzerland in international country codes :)
I just changed it to english, instead of Luzern, CH (Confoederatio Helvetica)
Lucerne, Switzerland

[PedroO]

OH!! Live and learn, that explains a lot of things!!!

BTW: Is it true that the highest rate of suicides happens in CH? :(

[G]

I played the Chaconne for John Williams in the same fashion at a similar speed and he said nothing. So, I presume it's all right! Approved by the master.

Listen to some violinists. They go so fast!!!

[racer_x]

Emotional player no doubt. Better than all those stiffs out there. IMO

[Section_10]

Emotional player no doubt. Better than all those stiffs out there. IMO

true enough, atleast he's doing something.

[parkthetree]

I played the Chaconne for John Williams in the same fashion at a similar speed and he said nothing. So, I presume it's all right! Approved by the master.

Listen to some violinists. They go so fast!!!

That's odd, since he is one of the slower players of the piece. On the other hand, he isn't the most sensitive of players (in my humble opinion). Talk about flame bait!!!

[MSG]

Nope, you have an newer version of the Segovia recording. His earlier version, the album with him and John Williams playing Bach comes in less than 12:10 (http://www.audiolunchbox.com/album?a=3727), Midori plays it in under 12:30, Heifetz's RCA recording was in 12:14 (I saw a recent YouTube recording of him playing it in under 13 minutes, although, he was pretty old by the time the video was recorded), and the version Kissin plays (he's a pianist, NOT a violinist) is the Busoni transcription, which is vastly different than the original Bach for strings. As for Parkening, Williams, Galbraith, like I said, their versions suck.

The Bach Chaconne that Segovia was going for, in his landmark transcription, was for the violinists. Infact, he said the first time he showcased the piece, it was to show the guitar's capabilities off to violinists, most of whom later said that they disliked the piece on the guitar (probably jealous, because this is still one of the violin's main show pieces). Most of the great violinists play this piece in under 12:20. A minute or more slower, would sound retarded on the guitar. This piece is supposed to be played fast, at the very least, and I have a hard time believing that you can control the tone of a 32nd note played at fast tempos. Segovia's early recordings, before his hands started getting really old, were clocked in at 12:20 as well. All the other recordings from Williams, Parkening, Galbraith (especially Galbraith's slow a** version) are slow and plodding. I can't stand to listen to their performances. Once I've heard the way it was meant to be played, on the violin that is, I need to hear it like that on the guitar: blazing and on fire.

For all it's worth, Yamashita's version is on par with Segovia's and Heifetz's.

The Heifetz recording I have (from iTunes) is 12:46 - but there is another one of him at 12:53, Parkening (From the Artistry) is 13:13, and Segovia's is 13:52 (From The collection, Vol 1 - no idea when it was recorded.), Itzhak Perlman plays it at 15:46 (!). John Williams clocks in at 13:52. Evgeny Kissin tackles it in 14:52, etc, etc, etc, etc.

The Chaconne does not have to blaze, as the differences in these great artists tempi suggests. The Heifetz version sounds fluid and unhurried, event though it is fast, because he plays so legato. The yamashita version,
with no legato used, sounds hurried and pointless. Besides, the Yamashita version is not even close to the version used by Segovia and Parkening, since the phrasing and right hand technique are so different.

Also, you CAN and MUST control the tone of a 32nd note at any tempo. My wife is a violin player, and she said in school that they listened to recordings of Heifetz at extremely slow speeds, and they could hear him actually making fine tuning adjustements to the notes even on scalar passages. I believe that it is that kind of attention to detail and discipline that differentiate good players from great artists.

For what it's worth, I have always admired KY's recording of Pictures at an Exhibition, although I haven't listened to it in a long time.

Just my opinion.

[parkthetree]

Nope, you have an newer version of the Segovia recording. His earlier version, the album with him and John Williams playing Bach comes in less than 12:10 (http://www.audiolunchbox.com/album?a=3727), Midori plays it in under 12:30, Heifetz's RCA recording was in 12:14 (I saw a recent YouTube recording of him playing it in under 13 minutes, although, he was pretty old by the time the video was recorded), and the version Kissin plays (he's a pianist, NOT a violinist) is the Busoni transcription, which is vastly different than the original Bach for strings.

The point was that many greatly respected artists record the piece at a wide range of tempi. Every version other than the Violin is a transcription, including every version for guitar.

Your point about Segovia's rendition is a bit of a hard sell. The recording I have is from 1954 - while his debut performance of the piece was in 1935. According to Israel Horowitz's liner notes in the CD (Segovia Collection, Vol 1, MCA), this is the earliest intact recording available. Besides, Segovia personally lauded Parkening's recording made when he was 19 (which is, by the way, Segovia's transcription, made after working personally with Segovia). The Legacy disc doesn't have any dates on it, so there is no telling when it is from (Although I have heard that the Art of the Guitar was made in 1947). I seriously doubt that Segovia went from blazing fast to decrepit in eight years. He would have been 54 the first time, and 62 the for the second. I have read one review which says that the 1947 recording has eight measures missing (225 - 232). I am going to get the recording and listen to it for myself.

For what it's worth, the same Segovia recording is available on at least 3 albums:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=98873811&s=143441&i=98873274
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=126264102&s=143441&i=126264282
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=126265048&s=143441&i=126265511

Besides, if we wanted to play it absolutely as the violinists do, we would all use arpeggiations for every chord, since a violinist couldn't even play the first chord without breaking it into two chords. The resulting sound is more often than not exceedingly harsh. Violin students at OU called them crunch chords. That is in my opinion the biggest obstacle to playing Bach well on a violin or cello.

As for Parkening, Williams, Galbraith, like I said, their versions suck.

I can't speak for Galbraith, but as for the others, that comes across as quite conceited. You may be right that Heifetz, Menuhin, Kissin, Williams, Perlman, Parkening, Segovia, Milstein, all suck - or at least sucked at one point in their careers - but I seriously doubt it. Especially using as sole criteria the clock time for the Chaconne interpretation.

If you don't personally like those renditions, then more power to you. But to state categorically that all other versions suck is quite indefensible, especially versions that musicologists generally regard as authentic (as well as mainstream media, since only that Segovia recording is available on iTunes which is under 12:40, with the vast majority well over 13:00, and over 60 versions available).

Anyway, this whole discussion is quite heady and devoid of any real value to me as a musician. So, other than reporting back if the '47 version is really missing measures, I will bow out from here on.

Edit: I just listened to the recording from the first Art of the Guitar link above, and there is a missing section at the end, actually 6 1/4 measures. That kills it for me. I can't believe they would have released it like that.

[MSG]

Why are you putting words into my mouth?? I didn't say Heifetz sucks, or Segovia sucks... ---EDITED---

My argument is that the Chaconne is played by most of the great violinists at a fast tempo, and that's the way Yamashita plays it. I, and you, can only guess as to why Segovia has slowed down his version of the Chaconne, so my guess is about as good as yours, unless you have words from his mouth that said he slowed it down based on more accurate composer's interpretations of the piece, etc....

[kyop]

Park The Frontal Lobe said:

"That's just stupid. You don't have to be able to play the piece to know if it is played well or not. I can point to performances by Parkenning, Segovia, Heifetz, etc, that all are much better for good reason. When you play before an audience, every single listener will be judging your playing regardless of whether they can play it, or have even heard it before. If you don't want to be judged subjectively, stop playing music!"

---EDITED---You could say, "I disagree" or "In my opinion" but you choose ---EDITED---

[Dave Tate]

Guys, sorry to interrupt your fight and all, but please stop the aggressive behavior. I've been editing the attacks and insults out of these posts.

In case you've been away, there's been much drama lately regarding forum conduct. Bad timing for your argument.

http://forum.guitarsalon.com/viewtopic.php?t=3879

Thanks,
Dave

[ClassicalGtrPlyr]

were sorry :(