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Old 08-04-2009, 04:36 PM
jasaco jasaco is offline
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Default Juan Estruch guitar - any information?

I have a Juan Estruch guitar that I bought from the luthier in Barcelona around 1972. At the time, I was very inexperienced (and I still am!) and did not know what I was buying. I only knew that it sounded pretty good to my naive ears and was different from most guitars because it had tuning pegs (like a cello), rather than gears. (Those pegs have turned out to be a pain!) Anyway, can any of you tell me anything about this guitar? I don't even know whether it is a decent guitar, a lousy one, or a great one! Any idea what it is worth today? I will appreciate any comments or information or opinions you might have about the guitar.

Thank you in advance!
Jim




Last edited by jasaco; 08-05-2009 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:55 PM
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Jubilee Valence Jubilee Valence is offline
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Arrow Whoa' Jim!!!???

Hold yer' horses!!!!

You've got a real fine example of a professional line top student model of a flamenca blanca!!!

The 3 week old round sticker is a dead giveaway!!!! LOL!!!


The salvaged oddball back pieces (pine?! )nail 'er down to a one-up, one of a kind 2A model!!!

The top checks are priceless as are the missing golpeadors---no worries!!!

The pegs are the deciding factor---do NOT sell this guitar until you've had a substantial examination done by a local luthier wherever you live!!!

I have a real hard time buying your commiserate "I don't know if it even sounds good" story---ESPECIALLY with those high tension trebles!!!!

HAAAA-haaaaAAAAAaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!----Yer' a real crack-up brother!

And welcome to the forum & thanks for showing these pics!!!!

REPEAT! do NOT sell her until you get a real good idea from an in-depth overhaul from an experienced luthier---ANYBODY will do better than me, but do it when you can!!

Until then keep 'er strung up & play the HELL out of 'er!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Last edited by Jubilee Valence; 08-04-2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:13 PM
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Decameron Lust Decameron Lust is offline
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hey jasaco, welcome!

I'm no flamenco player (unfortunately im sure it pulls the ladies) but if those pegs are bringing you down man you can get planetary replacements. They looks like regular pegs and are used in the same fashion but instead have a system of gearing inside so you needn't worry about slipping and so forth!

www.pegheds.com

the only ones i know that make them for guitar
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Last edited by Decameron Lust; 08-04-2009 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:09 AM
Joguitar Joguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
I have a Juan Estruch guitar that I bought from the luthier in Barcelona around 1972. .. and was different from most guitars because it had tuning pegs (like a cello), rather than gears. (Those pegs have turned out to be a pain!)
The pegs seem to be mahagonie...thats good...the problem seems to be stabel and easy tuning.?..the Luthier who restaurated my Ramirez 1913 solved the problem with handbuild:!!!!conical!!!! inlays put in the headstock holes out of the same wood-also mahagonie - in which the pegs rest perfectly with the right grip...!
I think a good luthier will do this Job for a fair price..hold this guitar..as Jubi suggested... SEEMS TO BE VERY GOOD SUBSTANCE!
Joguitar
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:51 AM
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jasaco: for starters i had difficulties reading your post as the right side of the text was cut off and i could not click and drag the box. however, i was able to decipher the theme of the text. here are my observations and comments. the advice i am giving you comes from experience as my 66 ramirez needed a peg job--remember the pegs, rosewood or ebony, continually are twisted in spanish cedar which is a softer wood and over decades the holes become enlarged.

1. the height of the "d string" peg and the other bass string pegs and your comment about difficulties being a pain says to me that you need to have hardwood inserts put into the holes, the holes re-drilled and tapered and new pegs inserted. the pegs on this guitar are fat and are sticking out pretty high on the string side of the head. this means the holes are pretty worn out. since these viola pegs are pretty fat it is very unlikely that you will find fatter viola pegs (there is a slight variation in diameter of viola pegs but it is about 1/16 inch at best and yours look to be on the fat end of that 1/16 end) and cello pegs are way to large to consider. as for inserting the planetary pegs, you might be abe to do so if the holes in your guitar are smaller in diameter than the planetary pegs.

to salvage the guitar you will need to take the guitar to a VIOLIN repair person. do not take it to a guitar repair person unless that person has had experience doing pegs. violin repair people do pegs all the time. the holes will be plugged with a hardwood (maple most likely) and the holes re-drilled through the hardwood. the holes will then be tapered and new pegs inserted. you want about 6-8 mm of the peg stickling out--just enough to accept the low e string. the cost will be around $200-300.

if you go the planetary peg route you will need the holes re-drilled and given that your guitar's holes are old and worn out they will most likely need to be plugged and re-drilled. as to the cost--i do not know since i have no experience in this area.


2. the guitar has what appears to be a rosewood fingerboard. generally the lesser expensive guitars have these. the 3 piece back has what appears to be 3 distinct pieces of what appears to be cypress and the outer pieces do not appear to be book matched and have, grain that is not even close to running parellel especially at the outer edges. i would say the guitar is in the estudio ballpark in terms of cost and quality--built in a guitar factory. as a caveat, i am making this conclusion based on the photos.

there is nothing inherently bad about a guitar built in a factory using odd pieces of wood. if you like the sound and it feels comfortable then do not worry about the value of the guitar. the pegs, though, you need to worry about as the problem is not going to get better.

Last edited by tanolonco; 08-05-2009 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:20 AM
jasaco jasaco is offline
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. Jubilee, I think you have the impression that I'm being facetious or something. I'm not sure why you have responded as you have, but I assure you I am not an experienced player and really have no idea of the quality or value of this guitar. I bought it when I was in college years ago and was studying classical guitar for about 1 year. I think I was mostly taken by its appearance at the time. I didn't say that I don't know if it even sounds good. It sounds fine to me, but an experienced player might say differently. If it's a student model guitar, I wouldn't be too surprised since that's probably all I could have afforded at the time anyway. After studying classical guitar for a year, I quit and went back to pedal steel guitar which I have played ever since, and lent this guitar to my sister for her kids for years. I just recently got it back and am now curious as to what it really is and what it's worth. I don't even know what a "golpeador" is, let alone why it would be missing on my guitar. And your comment about the "3-week old round sticker" is baffling. It is original from when I bought the guitar in 1972. The checks on the front are indeed unfortunate but so it is...

But thanks again to everyone for your comments and suggestions.

Jim
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:46 AM
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Y-2-H Y-2-H is offline
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Tuning pegs actually have benefits. They were chosen for a reason. They make your left hand move faster around the guitar.
The top is made of very good spruce! The cypress of the back & sides isnít bad either. The woods seem to not be so new which is great for you! Iím not even sure if you should sell it or not. It is not a concert flamenca for like $4000 but it is a top class student guitar!
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:11 AM
ssante ssante is offline
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Originally Posted by Y-2-H View Post
Tuning pegs actually have benefits. They were chosen for a reason. They make your left hand move faster around the guitar.
Can you detail the rationale behind this thinking? I would like to understand the Physics of this.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssante View Post
Can you detail the rationale behind this thinking? I would like to understand the Physics of this.
Sure,
Originally, flamenco guitars were made with wooden tuning pegs similar to a violin. Some guitarists still prefer these pegs to the classical style modern tuning gears. It is widely accepted that more weight in the headstock can improve sustain; unsurprisingly, less weight can result in quicker attack, a desirable quality in a flamenco guitar. This could explain why many flamenco players still favor the traditional pegs.

I personally prefer the classical machine heads because they are much more elegant to my eyes!
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:12 AM
ssante ssante is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-2-H View Post
Sure,
Originally, flamenco guitars were made with wooden tuning pegs similar to a violin. Some guitarists still prefer these pegs to the classical style modern tuning gears. It is widely accepted that more weight in the headstock can improve sustain; unsurprisingly, less weight can result in quicker attack, a desirable quality in a flamenco guitar. This could explain why many flamenco players still favor the traditional pegs.

I personally prefer the classical machine heads because they are much more elegant to my eyes!
I had assumped (maybe incorrectly) that classical style tuning gears required a larger headstock so that the difference in weight was somehow compensated. I guess I fiqured some folks just prefer pegs as a matter of tradition somewhat like the capo vs. cejilla thinking.

I appreciate you pointing this out.
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